Senate hearing on gun violence - Audio / Video

[Aussier]

Cowboy shoot, eh.

I think I can make the time for a visit.

[1290]

Cowboy shoot, eh.

I think I can make the time for a visit.

Yep Cowboy six-guns vs full auto 223 at the doors of parliament...

by the way

IT'S ON LIKE RON
the last session of this historic shoot out...care of the senate

third down the list here

[1290]

Todays schedule....there will be some interesting discussions to be had, and WTF?? 3D manufacturing assoc? FFS.



8.30 am Crime Prevention Research Center (Submission 394)
9.00 am Armament Research Services
9.30 am Panel:
Shooting Australia (Submission 60)
Shooters Union of Australia Inc. (Submission 101)
Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia Inc (Submission 58)
Historic Arms Collector's Council of Australasia Ltd (Submission 176)
10.20 am Morning tea
10.25 am Australian 3D Manufacturing Association (Submission 405)
11.10 am Crimtrac (Submission 87)
11.40 am Australian Crime Commission (Submission 75)
12.25 pm Lunch
12.45 pm International Coalition for Women in Shooting and Hunting (Submission 88)
1.10 pm Australian Institute of Criminology
1.55 pm Attorney-General's Department (Submission 42)
2.40 pm Afternoon tea
2.45 pm Australian Customs and Border Protection Service (Submission 61)
3.45 pm Australian Federal Police (Submission 182)
4.45 pm Adjournment

[bigfellascott]

Listen to it live here http://www.aph.gov.au/News_and_Events/Watch_Parliament

Go down to the 3rd one

[chacka]

Got it.

[1290]

Some thoughts on murder / crime rate; It really concerns me this continued association of gun ownership rates in the USA with crime (and a parallel in Aus)..... they never qualify the 'crime' and where how who the murders relate to, the drug and gang crime is the problem not the everyday lawful gun owner go about his or her business.... the pop'a'cap'in'you'ass culture is the fault, I directly attribute this present day culture with the entertainment, media and hollywood industries that have degraded the social fabric either partially all around the world, particularly the US or totally in areas.....

I see the day... eventually when 'we' will rationally consider crime, its causes (drugs, mental instability, social & domestic ills, greed) independently of the inanimate objects that may in some cases be used in the crime (guns particularly also other weapons)

By undertaking the simple task of considering the global perspective of crime, particularly the element of crime the people mostly associate with gun ownership - homicide, then the Gun ownership rate -is proportional to- homicide rate that is, more guns = more murder instantly falls over. FAIL .

According the the UN office on Drugs and Crime Iceland, had one homicide case during the last reporting period (2012); not sure if it was actually by firearm....although the population is only 320,000 or so, its firearm ownership rate is said to be 30 per 100 population or double Australians ownership! Note some reporting years there were zero murders, by any means!

So Uruguay, has a similar firearm ownership rate to Iceland, but has a murder rate, as well as a murder rate by firearm similar to the USA??
Serbia has over twice the firearms of australia per capita by a similar murder rate??
and China.... sure (effectively) no private gun ownership (though some more remote regions allow firearms strictly for hunting.....is not exactly a Utopian crime free society, just dont mention the frequent knife killing and massacres....

That murder rates have anything to do with firearm ownership rate..... absolute mythology, a lie perpetrated by those who want to take your guns.

Any discussion relating to crime/murder and firearm ownership rates, and considering the USA 'gun culture' (insert vertically reciprocating hand emoticon) is incomplete and a lie without looking at the global situation....

[1290]

Tick-tock senators......

Lets see this report.

[1290]

What a surprise.... the homework hasnt been handed in, extension to 9 April.....

[trekin]

First rule for the conduct of a Senate Inquiry............ DO NOT CALL FOR ONE UNLESS YOU KNOW THE OUTCOME WILL BE WHAT YOU WANT!!!

[Vati]

What a surprise.... the homework hasnt been handed in, extension to 9 April.....

First of several probably

[David Brown]

They should trial a 5 year concealed carry for law abiding and trained gun owners. The results in Chicago show that crime and gun related crime drop. Good guys don't do crime and bad guys are more scared.

Now that would stuff up the agenda somewhat.

:-/

These two articles are food for thought.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014 ... dney-siege

And Interpol seem to be onto it http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive ... ePage=true

[Norton]

Good guys don't do crime and bad guys are more scared.

The Greens are too dumb to understand that.

Anyone with a gun is a criminal by default in their eyes. Law abiding license holder or not.

[1290]

Good guys don't do crime and bad guys are more scared.

The Greens are too dumb to understand that.

Anyone with a gun is a criminal by default in their eyes. Law abiding license holder or not.

In their eyes?
No....in the eyes of the law, if you are a licensed gun owner then you ARE a criminal, hence all your details are on the CRIMinal TRACking system, for state, other state, federal and yes, international law enforcement agencies to use at their pleasure...

[Mich]

Good guys don't do crime and bad guys are more scared.

[Newdave]

We will never have concealed carry in this country. We will be lucky to hold on to what we have got for the next five years. This report even with the two senators standing up to the greens is not going to be good for us. The facts are being ignored the greens have made that very clear with a number of interviews with the chair of the inquiry in the last few months.

[Triang]

They should trial a 5 year concealed carry for law abiding and trained gun owners. The results in Chicago show that crime and gun related crime drop. Good guys don't do crime and bad guys are more scared.

Now that would stuff up the agenda somewhat.

It's pretty much already decided here that "guns are bad", truth or otherwise.

Except for out minority of gun advocate parties none of the others wouldn't entertain the idea of even a trail of loosening the reigns.

[trekin]

We will never have concealed carry in this country. We will be lucky to hold on to what we have got for the next five years. This report even with the two senators standing up to the greens is not going to be good for us. The facts are being ignored the greens have made that very clear with a number of interviews with the chair of the inquiry in the last few months.

While what you have said may be true, the defeatist attitude is what will ultimately be our undoing. Have any of you contacted Senator's Leyonhjelm, and/or Mckenzie and inquired as to what the hold up in handing down the findings of this inquiry is?

[Bourt]

We need some of the boys from the NRA to set up shop here

[1290]

Hot off the virtual press about to get stuck in.....

[Seconds]

Gov website having a spit and I can't read so far

[1290]

Yes, the greens are spitting chips....the libtard media has sided, quite predictably with the same antigun discourse, the reports are so skewed that it makes me sick with such as "the Coalition senators hijacking the inquiry......." FFS, we knew what they wanted, then the evidence tells it like it is....and removed the micro-thin veil off this attempted antigun campaign, to fly the red flag of commie-green gun grabbing in the name of saving society from the gunses (pronounced gun-zez)....

This was always about more regulation for the licensed shooter, we all know YOU CANT REGULATE THE OUTLAWS..because they are, crazy thought here; OUTLAWS!

And as far as numbers..... before the inquiry they were told you cant know how many - and they found; you cant know how many.....

Why did the greens and co get their collective panties in a huge knot?
Because the report, as interesting a read as it is, can be disregarded up to page 107. On this page, properly uppercased and emboldened you read:

REPORT BY A MAJORITY OF SENATORS ATTENDING THE INQUIRY

In other words; disregard all before this, following are the words of the majority......recorded forever for all to refer to.

Significant notes here; pay attention greenfucktards:

Evidence was given that firearms and/or parts can be produced by a reasonably proficient handyman in his home workshop. While 3D printers may be of assistance in carrying out this task they were by no means integral to the illegal manufacture of firearms.


1.168 There was no evidence presented to the Committee which demonstrated a significant problem with stolen firearms being used for criminal activity:


1.188 No evidence was received that banning semi-automatic handguns would have a material effect on the number of illegally held firearms in Australia or the level of gun violence


1.189 Victoria and NSW police did not seek further regulation but wanted more resources for compliance activities. Victoria Police evidence revealed that the majority of semi-automatic handguns seized are from criminals who are prohibited from owning. It was not clear that a ban on semi-automatic handguns would diminish their ability to obtain such handguns.


1.190 There was no credible evidence provided to support the conclusion that the use of electronic alarms on residential gun safes would materially enhance the security of stored firearms.


1.172 Some witnesses claimed that firearms reform in Australia over the last two decades had helped to significantly reduce the misuse of firearms with firearm related homicide in Australia down from 31.9 per cent in 1998 to 18.9 per cent in 2013.167
1.173 Others asserted that similar declines had been observed in countries that did not adopt Australia's approach to gun control, including New Zealand.


1.194 Game hunting provides significant social and cultural benefits to our nation. An independent study by the University of Queensland demonstrates that the benefit of recreational hunting to the economy is at least $1 billion. The number of recreational hunters in Australia was calculated to be at least 200 000, but more likely 300 000.


1.209 Canada has followed New Zealand's example and focuses more on the person making an application for a licence. Canada decreased the regulatory requirements for long arms and found no subsequent increase in gun related violence.


1.211(UK) The ban did not reduce the number of active shooters. Pistol clubs turned to pistol calibre carbines, which are more powerful and have higher capacity magazines. The UK has also reported an increase in homicide with pistols and in terms of crime: 'the ban on handguns is neither here nor there in the equation'.191
1.212 (UK) It is reasonable to conclude that the banning of certain categories of firearm only affects those who possess and use them lawfully. Those who use them unlawfully are already outside the law.




Response to Chair's Recommendations

1.213 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry do not agree with Recommendation 1 and Recommendation 2 of the Chair's report: the AIC should not receive additional funding for further research programs.

1.214 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry do not agree with Recommendation 3 of the Chair's report: these matters should remain responsibility for State and Territory governments.

1.215 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry do not agree with Recommendation 4 of the Chair's report: membership data held by gun clubs should remain a responsibility of State and Territory governments.

1.216 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry do not agree with Recommendation 7 of the Chair's report: new regulations do not need to be introduced to cover the manufacture of 3D printed firearms and firearm parts at this point in time.

1.217 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry do not support Recommendation 9 of the Chair's report and instead urge the government to consider funding initiatives that educate the wider public on safe use of firearms.

1.218 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry support Recommendation 5 of the Chair's report, that an ongoing Australia-wide gun amnesty could potentially reduce the number of illicit firearms in the community, especially those firearms that were not given up as part of the 1996 buyback. It is, however, noted that criminals are unlikely give up any firearms.

1.219 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry support Recommendation 6 of the Chair's report: jurisdictions have already agreed to update their firearm data holdings and transfer it to the National Firearms Interface.

1.220 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry support Recommendation 8 of the Chair's report and agree that it is important to continue monitoring the risks posed by 3D manufacturing of firearms.



Additional majority of Senators attending the inquiry Recommendations

Recommendation 1

1.221 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry recommend that the Commonwealth commission a study into the social, economic and environmental benefits of hunting across Australia, similar to the report that was released by the Victorian Government in 2013.

Recommendation 2

1.222 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry recommend the Commonwealth establish a formal mechanism for industry and firearm user groups to be consulted on issues relating to firearms regulation.

Recommendation 3

1.223 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry recommend the Commonwealth continue to pursue improvements in border control for detecting illegal imports of firearms and firearms parts.

Recommendation 4

1.224 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry recommend the Commonwealth review its contribution to firearms regulation in the context of the Reform of the Federation White Paper.

Recommendation 5

1.225 The majority of Senators attending the inquiry recommend State and territory governments investigate avenues to deregulate the firearm industry to ease the economic burden on governments, industry and legal firearm users.

Senator the Hon Ian Macdonald
Deputy Chair

Senator Linda Reynolds
Liberal Senator for Western Australia

Senator Bridget McKenzie
Nationals Senator for Victoria

Senator David Leyonhjelm
Liberal Democrats Senator for New South Wales



Couple of other things I'd note;

Rolly Brownstain refused to answer questions, notably the number of members in his national crusading movement (elsewhere estimated at 3, including the fax machine) though they still quoted his opinion on the importance of retaining the registration system etc....

Also, Vicpol refers to Middle Eastern Crime;

….This was a view shared by Victoria Police, which stated 'we have varying organised crime groups—Middle Eastern organised crime, …...

So to help you guys out:

[1290]

I know... bit long, but has to be mentioned!!

[anthillinside]

What I like about it is the majority report not only rejected most of the (Greentard) Chairs recommendations but made alternate recommendations in exactly the opposite direction than what the chair wanted.
I heard Penny (I’m always) Wright on the ABC sounding like a little kid who had her dolly taken away from her, by those nasty gun people and the opposition and everyone else was ganging up on her.

[Prios]

So to help you guys out:

Maybe they think that map is to scale and the Middle East crims are only 20cm away

[1290]

What I like about it is the majority report not only rejected most of the (Greentard) Chairs recommendations but made alternate recommendations in exactly the opposite direction than what the chair wanted.
I heard Penny (I’m always) Wright on the ABC sounding like a little kid who had her dolly taken away from her, by those nasty gun people and the opposition and everyone else was ganging up on her.

Pretty good description of the tards...like a dolly taken away, or a lollipop pulled from their mouths WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.....

The hearings were conducted inline with the old rule of not asking a question you didnt already know the answer to... and they always planned to create a report that suggested as a minimum tighter control of handguns and preferably REMOVING handguns from law abiding (and licensed) citizens. THAT is their true objective, they can sugar coat and market some bulls**t line about wanting to make it safer .... they talk "Gun control" but mean "disarmament" there is a significant difference....

C/- NSW greentards;
“Figures released today by the National Coalition for Gun Control shows that the number of firearms in NSW has grown by more than 14,000 in the last year.
“This means that every week for the past year an additional 270 guns have been circulated in the streets, houses and towns of NSW.

- They always associate lawful firearms with crime, as above, a registered/licensed handgun is the most regulated item in the land, I would go to the extent of saying a single shot 22cal target pistol is more regulated than a load of nuclear isotopes.... certainly anything you could imagine...yet they continually refer to the handguns as being "on the streets"!! ITS THE unregistered/unlicensed ones you dills, we all know!

And what about the biased, unrepresentative APMC agreement bulls**t (supposedly concocted by the law ENFORCERS to only be implemented by the law MAKERS....Police should have nothing to do with policy, it a significant bias, how could they suggest anything other the gun-control???

Only the NSW greens AFAIK place their policy online:

The Greens NSW believe:

1. Public firearms policy should be concerned with the prevention of firearm violence and be directed towards the removal of objects that cause injury and death;

There you have it, the truth is clear, REMOVAL of firearms

2. Public policy should be underpinned by World Health Organisation standards and the resolutions outlined Australasian Police Ministers Council Agreement on Firearms;

So they keep referring to the NFA... yet they want to change it??

So many of their policy item wish list are law, which is interesting in itself, but shows how switched on ****** is.....

[Wylie27]

And where is the SFP and the SSAA regarding this?

A couple of "press releases"is simply not enough.

Where is the advertising campaign? Where are the adverts in the papers?

Why do they take our money (SSAA)

Regards

[sarki]

Busy making their magazine?

Waiting for someone to pay to place the ad you talk about in it?

[tiki]

It's basically the Remington magazine now.

[anthillinside]

And where is the SFP and the SSAA regarding this?

A couple of "press releases"is simply not enough.

Where is the advertising campaign? Where are the adverts in the papers?

Why do they take our money (SSAA)

Regards

The SSAA and Jeff Bourman of the SFP along with many other shooting clubs some SSAA some not all made representations to the committee.
All organizations need money from their members to operate.
Like them or not we need them to represent our interests.
For the few dollars they ask I think it’s better value for money than what I pay for my License and PTA’s.
Without them the committee report would have been 100% greens BS and there wouldn’t have been any dissenting views.
And right now we would all be complaining about pending new tougher legislation about to be passed.
As I see it there are three options;
1. Do it yourself.
2. Pay someone else to do it for you.
3. Suck it up buttercup, just accept what is done to you because you haven’t done 1 or 2

[David Brown]

SSAA needs 100% membership of Aussie shooters and perhaps all the other associations working in a closer collaborative effort.

Sadly in Australia this fragmented population of various arena's is what allows government agencies to ride over us. Aviation is another that comes to mind. Divide and conquer they say!