Concealed Carry in Australia

[David Brown]

Yet more proof that properly trained concealed carry is a good thing to have in society.

An armed society is a polite society.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/uber- ... ago-2015-4

We need to push this further and harder.

[tarnagulla]

Good luck and God bless you with that! Oddly enough, apparently back in the 1960s (1970s?) in NSW "self defence" was a legitimate reason for owning a handgun.
Your chances now about the same as a snowball in hell...

[Baldrick314]

I agree with the concept of concealed carry and definitely with having a right to armed self defense, ultimately I don't see it coming to Australia though.

The problem is that you have to allow for the stupidest people in our society. I interact daily with people I wouldn't trust with a pen let alone a firearm. You can't just exclude them though because that defeats the purpose of having a right to self defence if you can pick and choose who has it.

To even get to a point where armed self defense would be considered in this country there would have to be a serious tragedy or string of tragedies that you could reasonably argue an armed civilian could have prevented and even then the majority of public opinion is against using firearms for that purpose so I don't see it gaining traction

[1290]

There are countless examples of violence being perpetrated in Australia, where a bona fide member of society could have easily resolved the situation.... whether or not it would end in gunshots. Given the opportunity I would gladly and enthusiastically carry a firearm, concealed, to defend myself, my family, other people AND EVEN YOUR Wife / husband / boyfriend / family if necessary North by North west....

The Sydney incident with the nutcase the feds... couldnt be bothered keeping track of... would have ended in about 3 second.

[PaWNTANK]

I like the idea, I've heard plenty of stories of instances in the states and Europe where an aggressor has been forced to retreat or kill themselves when faced with another armed member of the community. But as Baldrick pointed out we couldn't allow only certain members of society to carry firearms. The idea of some of the mouth breathers I know getting access to firearms makes me shudder. I'm sure there are ways it could be implemented. But hell, we can't even get a pump action shotgun or Ruger 10/22 on a regular licence here at the moment. I would be stoked to see PTAs gone and merging Cat C into Cat A, that's a pipe dream. Concealed carry...... Well that's like a pipe dream within a pipe dream.

[tom604]

man will never fly

man will never go to the moon

we will never get concealed carry

never is a long time

[Baronvonrort]

Yet more proof that properly trained concealed carry is a good thing to have in society.

An armed society is a polite society.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/uber- ... ago-2015-4

We need to push this further and harder.

The Liberal Democrats are ok with concealed carry,check out their firearms policy.

If it was allowed I wouldn't carry

[Point223]

I support it! Will it be allowed here? Can't see it happening. Hell you're not allowed to conceal a multifunction leatherman knife without getting busted.

[Baronvonrort]

Hell you're not allowed to conceal a multifunction leatherman knife without getting busted.

My American friends give me heaps over slingshots being banned here,we have a long way to go.

[trekin]

I like the idea, I've heard plenty of stories of instances in the states and Europe where an aggressor has been forced to retreat or kill themselves when faced with another armed member of the community. But as Baldrick pointed out we couldn't allow only certain members of society to carry firearms. The idea of some of the mouth breathers I know getting access to firearms makes me shudder. I'm sure there are ways it could be implemented. But hell, we can't even get a pump action shotgun or Ruger 10/22 on a regular licence here at the moment. I would be stoked to see PTAs gone and merging Cat C into Cat A, that's a pipe dream. Concealed carry...... Well that's like a pipe dream within a pipe dream.

FWIW, I personally see no problem with restricting who could conceal carry, but only within a tiered self defence policy. Castle doctrine, stand your ground laws, less then lethal alternatives (CS, hand tasers etc) need to be part of that policy, along with concealed or open carry for those who qualify though stringent vetting. Just remember that even across the pond in the land of the brave and the free, concealed carry permits aren't handed out in crackerjack boxes to anyone who wants one.

[Rippah]

To even get to a point where armed self defense would be considered in this country there would have to be a serious tragedy or string of tragedies that you could reasonably argue an armed civilian could have prevented and even then the majority of public opinion is against using firearms for that purpose so I don't see it gaining traction

It's been said on here before and I thought it sounded right that a string of tragedies would have to happen to certain people for it to change.

The Greens and Antis wouldn't care would could have been averted, unless they're the ones it happens to.

[Manimal]

Just remember that even across the pond in the land of the brave and the free, concealed carry permits aren't handed out in crackerjack boxes to anyone who wants one.

That's a doubled edged sword though I suppose.

Following that path how long before they end up like us?

[David Brown]

And just in case anyone needs some more proof that good people are not the problem.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... t-holders/

http://dcgazette.com/fbi-legal-gun-owne ... ime-drops/

If you don't want to participate thats fine. But those prepared to accept the responsibility and it is a huge step up, should be able to. I bet there are thousands who would be better off armed in society than our police force friends many of whom get less practise on a range that most of us do in a week. I know this is a complaint from the competent cops I know.

[Timb0]

What I think of this topic...

[David Brown]

I support it! Will it be allowed here? Can't see it happening. Hell you're not allowed to conceal a multifunction leatherman knife without getting busted.

Interesting. What are you allowed in NSW? Breathe?

Seriously, as far as I recall you can carry on your belt a swiss army knife. I wish I could find mine because i would wear it more….until you got to the airport.

[David Brown]

What I think of this topic...

Tim, bad guys DO NOT want you to have one of them. They are really scared of good guys who actually know how to use them properly.

[Timb0]

What I think of this topic...

Tim, bad guys DO NOT want you to have one of them. They are really scared of good guys who actually know how to use them properly.

It's actually something I seen on the net the same time this post came up.
I don't know if even 90% of low life's think about it too much. Guess they are used to not having guns pointed at them.
I think the only people who really worry about it besides the greens are the wonderful Australian government. Seems they rather have all the control not the people.

[Point223]

No use in complaining. A man would do whatever was needed to defence against a home invader even if they had to use bare hands.

[aekpani]

Okey guys.. I have been living in different countries from where cancelled carry was allowed (I used to CC colt .357 king cobra or CZ100) to countries where none even allowed to have a weapon whatsoever.
Countries like Pakistan , each city has different level of risk, i used to live in Karachi city where almost anyone can get a weapon (legal or illegal and that's another debate :p ) I have never seen or came to know anyone pulling out his/her concealed carry to defend themselves or their families. Despite that, there are none I know who have never been robbed or their mobile wasn't snatched (me included my car and mobile both were Snatched at a same time).
Next example of country called Kazakhstan city Almaty, used to concealed carry a gas pistol. There also I haven't hear anyone used weapon to defend their families or themselves.
Only thing I have heard was about criminals using cold or hot weapons for their activists whatsoever.

Next country is UAE, Dubai. You can't own a weapon and even you won't find weapon illegally there. There isn't any major crimes and even if there is a robbery mostly they catch the thieves.
So conclusion is, best people to conceal carry are law enforcement and that is why they have been hired.

After all my experience with and around weapons , I rather not support cc just for one simple reason, if it is not my paid job I have higher chance of messing it up.

You may disagree with me but I will not be disagreeing with anyone here because I know the worth of freedom of speech and actually using that right. We all are fortunate to live in country like Australia

[coloradoboy]

you sure do like weaponizing everything, don't ya. Aekpani.

I carry a concealed snubnosed .38 revolver in my IWB every day with two extra speed strips. It is comfortable and is a whole lot lighter than carrying a cop. In the US, most if not all of us (at least we republicans) believe that we have the right to be allowed to protect ourselves and therefore have the right to carry and use firearms, self-defense implements, etc when needed. From my experience when I used to live in Australia, citizens are not allowed to carry any self defense implements. Therefore, for concealed carry of firearms to even be legislatively considered Australia would need to progressively allow the most basic of self defense implements first before firearms are even considered. I don't think this will ever happen anytime soon because for Australia as it appears has been able to garner enough support from the citizens to feel that law enforcement is grossly inadequate in preserving the peace. Until an obvious and extremely gaping inadequacy exists or Australia is somehow able to get some of our sensational left and right media talents then I highly doubt anything constructive will come out.

[bluerob]

Simple solution.

Allow citizens who have held their hand gun licence for a minimum of 2 years and are regular competition shooters, if they choose to carry. Training will be obvioulsy required. Being an A grade IPSC shooter doesn't automatically allow you to carry, but, your at the front of the line if you choose to?

People with zero experience in handguns don't get to carry. That fixes the "I don't want everyone in Sydney packing heat." Seen that idiot comment somewhere.

This is vetted by the APA and NSW Police (I'm speaking as a NSW resident).

Times are changing and we have people living in this country who aren't as like minded as the most of us (having a peaceful existence, freedom of religious thought and practice etc etc).

Police aren't 5 mins away all the time. It'd take counter terror blokes ages to get to where I live and shop. Funny how I see Highway Patrol more often than GD guys though.......

Other alternative is a trained volunteer police force. We have trained volunteer rescue and life saving so why not a volunteer police unit? Again vetting and training are required. Popcorn moment coming on I think.....

[David Brown]

After all my experience with and around weapons , I rather not support cc just for one simple reason, if it is not my paid job I have higher chance of messing it up.

You may disagree with me but I will not be disagreeing with anyone here because I know the worth of freedom of speech and actually using that right. We all are fortunate to live in country like Australia

Yeah I hear you, and the risk here is minimal. But if the risk actually finds YOU…the risk is 100%. CC is also not for the individual to become the SAS. Your best defines is use your feet and not be there, but if trouble stalks you down, what ya gunna do?

I also agree Australia is a great place, but my intel is that we are heading for more Lindt cafe's and sooner or later a mother and infant beheaded in a shopping mall or in a park or similar.

Likewise the USA is a great place…My wife and I call it our other home. Again the risks are small, but if they find you…its 100%.

You have had an interesting time of life it seems

[David Brown]

Simple solution.

Allow citizens who have held their hand gun licence for a minimum of 2 years and are regular competition shooters, if they choose to carry. Training will be obvioulsy required. Being an A grade IPSC shooter doesn't automatically allow you to carry, but, your at the front of the line if you choose to?

People with zero experience in handguns don't get to carry. That fixes the "I don't want everyone in Sydney packing heat." Seen that idiot comment somewhere.

This is vetted by the APA and NSW Police (I'm speaking as a NSW resident).

Times are changing and we have people living in this country who aren't as like minded as the most of us (having a peaceful existence, freedom of religious thought and practice etc etc).

Police aren't 5 mins away all the time. It'd take counter terror blokes ages to get to where I live and shop. Funny how I see Highway Patrol more often than GD guys though.......

Other alternative is a trained volunteer police force. We have trained volunteer rescue and life saving so why not a volunteer police unit? Again vetting and training are required. Popcorn moment coming on I think.....

Yep….and in simple terms your concepts are worthy of consideration by the state and federal governments.

CC is an enormous responsibility and not to be taken lightly. Unlike the USA where it is a right etched in the second amendment, here it would be a privilege with enormous responsibility. Just as it is with police and security folk.

By the way the majority of police in Australia do half the training that a committed pistol club member does in a month. I have compared notes with my friendly QPS shooter….his statistics not made up by me. The various police forces do not have the resources to train enough. They are not there when you need them, and they are not there to protect YOU. Period. they have a society in general obligation….nothing more.

[Harper]

Interesting. What are you allowed in NSW? Breathe?

You're probably more right than you know.

Defending yourself with harsh language is probably verbal assault

Not even allowed sound with your breathe

[aekpani]

Yeah I hear you, and the risk here is minimal. But if the risk actually finds YOU…the risk is 100%. CC is also not for the individual to become the SAS. Your best defines is use your feet and not be there, but if trouble stalks you down, what ya gunna do?

Agreed 100%, however stalkers are everywhere, even internet is not safe, how do we know our personal computer is not hacked? Risk is always there.

I also agree Australia is a great place, but my intel is that we are heading for more Lindt cafe's and sooner or later a mother and infant beheaded in a shopping mall or in a park or similar.

It is worthwhile to mention on Lindt cafe incident example of Dubai, you will find all sorts of nationalities with all sorts of individuals with similar type of backgrounds there, but still you will never find such actions there, why? because
a. Is a weapon FREE country,
b. they deal with criminals without fail and their politicians dont label one group due to the actions of a known criminal (this is part of another debate)
c. they would have get the sniper do his job as soon as sniper is in his position . (most effective point)

Lindt cafe hostage taker was a known criminal, sex offender, murder suspect, mentally sick and should have been behind bars not walking on the streets, able to get hold of "illegal" firearm and go on trigger happy last journey...

As per my understanding future incident are been prevented and Australian Law enforcement is a doing brilliant job!

You have had an interesting time of life it seems

Yes I did and I am still having it! Thank you,
Someone once told me: live free, live life to fullest, love fellow human, and think different

[trekin]

Okey guys.. I have been living in different countries from where cancelled carry was allowed (I used to CC colt .357 king cobra or CZ100) to countries where none even allowed to have a weapon whatsoever.
Countries like Pakistan , each city has different level of risk, i used to live in Karachi city where almost anyone can get a weapon (legal or illegal and that's another debate :p ) I have never seen or came to know anyone pulling out his/her concealed carry to defend themselves or their families. Despite that, there are none I know who have never been robbed or their mobile wasn't snatched (me included my car and mobile both were Snatched at a same time).
Next example of country called Kazakhstan city Almaty, used to concealed carry a gas pistol. There also I haven't hear anyone used weapon to defend their families or themselves.
Only thing I have heard was about criminals using cold or hot weapons for their activists whatsoever.

Next country is UAE, Dubai. You can't own a weapon and even you won't find weapon illegally there. There isn't any major crimes and even if there is a robbery mostly they catch the thieves.
So conclusion is, best people to conceal carry are law enforcement and that is why they have been hired.

After all my experience with and around weapons , I rather not support cc just for one simple reason, if it is not my paid job I have higher chance of messing it up.

You may disagree with me but I will not be disagreeing with anyone here because I know the worth of freedom of speech and actually using that right. We all are fortunate to live in country like Australia

Mate, whilst I respect your experience and personal stance on CC, your depiction of the UAE as a gun free/crime free utopian society is not quite correct. You are correct in that an Expat working there can't own a firearm (although there are clubs and shooting resorts for Expat workers and tourist), UAE Federal Law allows citizens of the UAE ownership of a fairly free ranging, by Aust. standards, array of firearms. The World Health Organisation (WHO), United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) and United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) Global Status Report on Violence Prevention 2014 say's in part, the following;

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Action Plans, Policies and Laws Relevant to Several Types of Violence
Firearms
Laws to regulate civilian access: YES
Mandatory background check: YES
Handguns/long guns/automatic weapons: YES/YES/YES
Carrying firearms in public: YES
Programmes to reduce civilian firearm possession and use: n/a

Furthermore, the Small Arms Survey 2007: Guns and the City puts the estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in the United Arab Emirates at 1,000,000, which equates to an estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) as 22.11 firearms per 100 people, which ranks the UAE at No. 46 with the number of privately owned guns and ranked at No. 24 with the rate of private gun ownership, of the 178 countries surveyed.

And while minor crimes such as theft (punishable by amputation at the elbow, under Sharia Law), assault (imprisonment then deportation) even kissing in public (punishable by deportation) may be rare (I wonder why), auto theft has increased to such a level that now motorist who leave their vehicle running while unattended face an on the spot fine of $100. Cybercrime, White-collar crime including embezzlement of funds, fraud and bribery are on the rise. Drug trafficking is a major form of crime in the UAE, and the nation has a zero tolerance policy towards illegal drug use. Possession of the smallest amount of illegal drugs is punishable by a minimum of four years' imprisonment. Human trafficking of women into the country for sexual exploitation is another major problem. According to the Global Study on Homicide, United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), the homicide rate in the UAE in 2012 was 2.6 per 100,000 compared to Australia's 2012 - 2013 rate of 1.1 per 100,000.

[wrenchman]

As a member from usa i dont think it is fare to compare australia to the usa we are far apart in population and in other areas that would take a while to list like no trust in the goverment by most our population.
That as it is concealed carry is rather new in most parts of the usa and just a decade ago it could take me weeks to get a permit to buy a hand gun in my home state but i could buy a long gun over the counter.
I can say i see a lot of gun taining now days that you just never seen in the past

[Mich]

I can say i see a lot of gun taining now days that you just never seen in the past

That's something I have felt was lacking here too.

Making anything mandatory is a slippery slope but in the past I think we could have done with some better best practices and training culture when it came to firearms.

[David Brown]

That's something I have felt was lacking here too.

Making anything mandatory is a slippery slope but in the past I think we could have done with some better best practices and training culture when it came to firearms.

Amen!!

Mich, not sure if you tune in to my friend Tom Greshams radio show over there in the USA, but he and many industry colleagues report a massive uptake in quality training. Not just the mandatory CC class, but really good training. And not just defensive stuff either.

A big surge is from the ladies. We should be getting this here too.

What I have noticed from the statistics is that gun related accidents and general deaths have reduced over the last 40 years, and most of it is from better training or education and awareness from the improvement in communications and media. The NRA and NSSF are a classic example. Folks like Toms's radio and TV show. It all adds up.

[David Brown]

And read this…… http://www.news.com.au/national/victori ... 7336355884

And this http://www.onenewsnow.com/national-secu ... UguYTeDSlI

Where there is smoke there is fire. Its coming folks, sadly. Remember when seconds count……..