Concealed Carry in Australia

[Title_II]

It's as confusing here as it is in your land.

[adam]

Not having a go at you but that's been tried and defeated before too

The argument was more criminals would use mace for hold ups and attacks so it would be worse to allow it

Same BS argument they put forward against everything with no evidence it trying anything.

So, if at first you don't succeed....

I get (and appreciate) what your saying. Whatever argument they have against pepper spray they will use against CC, so by my understanding first you have to get over the hurdle of pepper spray well before you can attempt for something greater. Giving up means that we progress nowhere.

The greens keep pushing the same agenda over and over again until they get it through. It works for them, so why not do the same? We've got a media cry out about violence against women at the moment. A good levelheaded and well presented spokesman on the media putting forward cases for women to have the ability to defend themselves with pepper spray would be a great place to start. The government presently denies any law abiding person the ability to defend themselves against anyone else who doesn't care for the law and thus carries a weapon. Shop attendants, service station staff, etc. Crime will increase because the public is completely vunerable. The only way to reverse this practically is to give people the ability to defend themselves.

Plus, if I'm held up, I'd much prefer a criminal pointing (and using) pepper spray against me than a knife, bat or gun! It might be painful, but I'd survive. Same reason I think that tazers should be available to licensed members of the public especially, but one step at a time.

[Press]

I'll take mace over a knife too thanks.

[David Brown]

I would like a S&W M&P in 9mm with the 17 round mag, and a Scandium 1911 for going to BBQ's and weddings etc.

Fitted with a Crimson Trace laser grips of course!

[cuvy]

Not having a go at you but that's been tried and defeated before too

The argument was more criminals would use mace for hold ups and attacks so it would be worse to allow it

Same BS argument they put forward against everything with no evidence it trying anything.

That argument makes total sense - I'd much rather be held up with a stick, knife or gun than that evil non-lethal pepper spray.

[North East]

Concealed carry will never be allowed in this country. You can hardly have a semi auto rifle and I had to hand that back! Don't kid yourself....it's not going to happen. Just get on with life.

[Title_II]

So, if at first you don't succeed....

I get (and appreciate) what your saying. Whatever argument they have against pepper spray they will use against CC, so by my understanding first you have to get over the hurdle of pepper spray well before you can attempt for something greater. Giving up means that we progress nowhere.

The greens keep pushing the same agenda over and over again until they get it through. It works for them, so why not do the same?

How bout it.

Very observant. When was the last time the gun grabbers gave up when they didn't get what they wanted? Never. They are relentless.

If they are going to be relentless while we give up at the first sign of resistance then I think we all know where this is going to end.

A good levelheaded and well presented spokesman on the media putting forward cases for women to have the ability to defend themselves with pepper spray would be a great place to start.

Here is something else you need to be careful about. Or, better put, LESS careful about. When is the last time a gun grabber was concerned about seeming like an extremist or a nut? Never. The gun grabbers are going to call you all nuts whether you start a "public masturbation for gun rights" campaign or you donate money to disadvantaged families and travel overseas to rebuild Nepal. You will be called nuts no matter what you say, and even if you say nothing at all. We ARE going to be called nuts. We ARE going to step on our willies. There WILL be mistakes. But hesitation and paralysis are death. We want to try to be careful about what we say. We do want to develop plans. We do want good spokes people. But we cannot wait for that. We must speak out in defense of our rights, we must do it publicly, and we must do it now. If we don't, then nobody else will, either. If we do, it will embolden our now silent supporters. There are many more than some of us think there are.

I would like a S&W M&P in 9mm with the 17 round mag, and a Scandium 1911 for going to BBQ's and weddings etc.

Fitted with a Crimson Trace laser grips of course!

I don't have very many handguns. I usually carry a Glock G19 and sometimes a Colt 1903 as a BUG. I wish I had a 1911. At BBQs I carry a S&W Model 15. Nice enough old school gun. Nothing special. I just have a really nice $110 brown leather holster for it

.38 doesn't get much respect in the States, which is kind of silly. People at a BBQ will see it and say, "Nice Smith (being kind). .357?"

"No, .38."

So one of my friends I hang out with a lot carries either a giant stainless .357 or a $1500+ Dan Wesson 1911. We'll walk into the Tractor Supply or wherever else there are hot young ladies working and I'll hear, "Hey, nice gun!" I'll turn around, they are not talking to me. They are talking to him. Doesn't matter if it's the .357 or the 1911, chicks dig both. So I'll turn a little bit so they can see my Glock and enter the conversation. Nothing. Zero interest in my plastic Glock Tupperware. Then like one or two other girls will show up to see what's going on. I can't believe this crap. BTW, my buddy is short and fat, too.

[adam]

Here is something else you need to be careful about. Or, better put, LESS careful about. When is the last time a gun grabber was concerned about seeming like an extremist or a nut? Never. The gun grabbers are going to call you all nuts

And let them. It would work in our favour:

ie: If the LDP got up with the intention that they are concerned about the increase in crime, especially against store owners and women - and they would like to see these people be able to protect themselves with pepper spray - and gave a good sensible approach to it - you'd win over a lot more of the public than you have now. You may win over some more of the women group, as well as store owners. We're not talking guns - we're talking basic non lethal defence.

The greens would still call it / them extremist nuts - but more of the population would be willing to listen to the above (because it affects more of the population. How many women do you know are worried about being alone in the street at night - I know many - none which have firearms licenses, but most that would be open to the option of a can of spray in their hand bag).

This would start a sensible debate, and when the greens call everyone nutters for it - more of the population will start seeing them for what they truly are - completely against any bit of logic that defies their idealism.

Oz is very different to the USA. As mentioned, we're not even allowed to defend ourselves in our own homes with a baseball bat. Going from that to all out lethal defense is straight out impossible, but if we could get some form of self defence such as spray started - this could start saving victims from assaults and would be a great place to start. And even if we never got to CC of firearms - it would still be a good step in the right direction on it's own.

[David Brown]

Adam, I agree that any step forward is better than nothing, but we must push all the way. There was once a time when I thought…who needs it. But there is more and more evidence mounting by the day that we will.

Just a point of technicality though.

As mentioned, we're not even allowed to defend ourselves in our own homes with a baseball bat.

This is not true. you are not allowed to arm yourself for the purposes of self defence with any weapon, be it a toothpick or a Barrett 0.50 cal M82 or anything in-between.

You are allowed to defend yourself when you fear your life (and those around you) with anything available should the situation require it. If you were Mathew Hayden who is a shooter and a former test cricket player, it is quite reasonable for him to use whatever he had at hand, be that a mighty huge cricket bat that he used, or any firearm he has.

No matter what, he or you or I would get charged and have to defend ourselves in court but it is an admissible excuse to use any item as a weapon for self defence. Just be sure that it is actually self defence and not assault.

Do not carry a baseball bat in your car door pocket, without having any other form of sporting equipment associated though, as you could be seen to be carrying that as a weapon.

Does that make sense? And yes it is stupid I know……..

[David Brown]

And for those who think it does not happen here, EPIC FAIL.

Right here in Brisbane and caught on air. I wonder if the left wing ABC would think this through.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-27/m ... 12/6502156

[Xerox]

Does that make sense? And yes it is stupid I know……..

We understand, but it doesn't make sense, no

You're "allowed" to defend yourself but you will be charged regardless and have to fight again to avoid a criminal conviction. That's now the definition of "allowing" something last time I looked.

Great system, right?

[adam]

From my perspective if you're charged then it's not considered OK - and not permitted. If the police charge you, then they've normally got a reasonable expectation that the law is on their side. Sure, you may get a good sympathetic judge, but in general if you're charged - you've broken the law to start with.

But to clarify - (and I could be wrong here), but my understanding was that you are not allowed to have any item placed for the purpose of self defense (that could cause GBH or death) - but you can use an item if it 'happens' to be there for the purpose provided it wasn't first intended.

ie:

a) if I purchase a baseball bat and have it next to my bead for the purpose of defending myself from a home invader, and they attack me - I'm in trouble because it was premeditated and will have to fight a charge in court.

b) if I purchase a baseball bat because I play baseball, and during a home invasion I happen to have my sport gear including baseball bat near me, and I use that, then there's a much greater chance I won't be charged because it wasn't premeditated.

c) If I have a bedside lamp next to my bed, and I grab that to defend myself and hit the robber in the head, again, I may be OK.

d) But if I have another object that's not normal for any other purpose than self defense, I'm up the creek.

e) If I have one of those 'self defense pens' and use that for self defense - premeditated, I'm in trouble, but

f) If I have a normal pen and use that I'm OK....

etc...

As such, this tells me that we are not allowed to have an item for self defense purposes. Yes - there are ways around this. (loop holes) such as taking up baseball - but for the general population - the law basically denies anyone the basic right to have any item in the house there for the purpose of self defense, and you have to hope that the 'circumstances' that the home invasion takes place is one where it falls in your favour (or your clever enough to know this to start with and prepare and know the right answers when asked by the police, etc).

Until this concept is changed within our laws we can't expect anything else to follow suit. This is the root underlying problem that needs to be targeted. The general human right to be able to prepare to defend ones self and ones family that we have been robbed of.

[David Brown]

You have got it right!

You may not get charged in a self defence situation, but you might. They then leave it to the courts to decide if it was in fact a self defence situation, rather than work it out for themselves.

Yes our country is REALLY screwed up on a lot of legal things. Firearms and Aviation are two classics. I do both

It is just lucky that we somehow have a great place to live in otherwise I would be somewhere else…..and trust me, Texas, Florida or anywhere in between is not far from reality if the gubbermint here steps over the line, and they are damned close already.

[Title_II]

It is just lucky that we somehow have a great place to live in otherwise I would be somewhere else…..and trust me, Texas, Florida or anywhere in between is not far from reality if the gubbermint here steps over the line, and they are damned close already.

What would constitute stepping over the line?

[David Brown]

Some more stupid taxes, degrading GA a bit more and some gun law restrictions. It all adds up to just too much BS.

Problem is most folk do not notice the degradation when it is incremental, you have the same problems over there, just not as much as here.

It might explain why NZ is booming these days……we by comparison have lost the plot.

[Title_II]

Some more stupid taxes, degrading GA a bit more and some gun law restrictions. It all adds up to just too much BS.

Problem is most folk do not notice the degradation when it is incremental, you have the same problems over there, just not as much as here.

It might explain why NZ is booming these days……we by comparison have lost the plot.

We do have similar problems, but I think it would be incorrect to say we have the same problems to a lesser extent. That would suggest we are losing our firearms rights in the US but at a slower rate than in Australia. Our firearms rights are increased on a net level every year in the US by quite a bit. We haven't had a losing year in over two decades.

[David Brown]

Actually, you are correct in that particular point, and I agree. My broad generalisation captured an unintended topic. Having said that the gun grabbers over there are very active and the likes of Bloomberg is throwing millions of dollars at it all the time. So you can not rest up.

Sadly for us, we are not in a defensive situation, we have lost so much it is hard to get it back.

PS: Do you follow a friend of mine over there by the name of Tom Gresham? I know him through aviation and other friends we have in common. Great guy Does a lot of good work for gun owners.

For those wondering search Gun Talk Radio, Gun Talk TV and Gun Talk Media on FB.

[ChicagoTed]

i got him subbed on youtube
i listen to it while i work out

[Title_II]

Actually, you are correct in that particular point, and I agree. My broad generalisation captured an unintended topic. Having said that the gun grabbers over there are very active and the likes of Bloomberg is throwing millions of dollars at it all the time. So you can not rest up.

Sadly for us, we are not in a defensive situation, we have lost so much it is hard to get it back.

PS: Do you follow a friend of mine over there by the name of Tom Gresham? I know him through aviation and other friends we have in common. Great guy Does a lot of good work for gun owners.

For those wondering search Gun Talk Radio, Gun Talk TV and Gun Talk Media on FB.

Yes, we have to look over our shoulders constantly.

I have heard of him but I have not seen any of that as far as I recall.

[wrenchman]

he has been on a few radio shows

[David Brown]

He runs a great radio show, every Sunday on about 220 stations across the USA as well as by podcast. I use the app because it is way early Monday morning for me :-/

[Rippah]

It is just lucky that we somehow have a great place to live in otherwise I would be somewhere else…..and trust me, Texas, Florida or anywhere in between is not far from reality if the gubbermint here steps over the line, and they are damned close already.

And working hard to cross it by the looks of things

[David Brown]

At least the media pay attention when its a celebrity…..

Vince Vaughn (who I had never heard of before) makes no doubt about the truth.

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/ce ... 7379066070

Enjoy!

[Seconds]

Vince Vaughn (who I had never heard of before) makes no doubt about the truth.

Go watch Anchorman.

[adam]

Well, good luck with that...

It’s the same reason we have freedom of speech.

We are fast losing that here in Australia too. Debates are forcefully and aggressively shut down by groups who want the other side silenced. Instead of letting debates stand on their own merits. They consider others who disagree with them with the right to free speech dangerous. And label them with any term available to them.

Far worse than any debate or differencing in opinions is the denial of a calm and respective discussion to get the perceptions of both sides. I may strongly disagree and even be disgusted in someone's opinion and ideas but I respect the right for their voices to be heard on the matters.

[veep]

Go watch Anchorman.

They’ve done studies, you know. 60 percent of the time, it works every time.

[1290]

a 'celebrity' that comes out and publicly advocates for the right to own firearms, self defence etc is certainly refreshing, and a change in the trend where most of these tools, who are more than happy to be compensated with millions upon millions of dollars to create movies with wall to wall gun killing; then appear on the various gun-grabber pleas, calling for all common people to give up their guns..(check demand-a-plan parody ).. how laughable, do you think they'd give up their millions; "oooooooh for the children!" yeah, no.... no yeah, I mean HELL NO! In their minds, whether the movie stars, politicians, super-wealthy, theyre speeecial, certainly more so than you and I.

& please don't idolise these parasites, I don't need to tell you guys, and most of you seem quite switched on around here (very few definite exceptions!) that 100% of them will gladly be surrounded by armed protectors...... no arms for the sheeple, just go and watch my latest hollywood crapfest...

Just look at the pollies in the USofA, the king of the gungrabbers is not-so-feinstein; she damn well carried her own handgun!!! what about Osama, I mean Obuma, I mean Obama, would he order the guards surrounding his family to lay down their 45s and MP5s (maybe shorty ar15 autos) just to send a consistent message to the masses..... hahahahaha of course not.

the opinion of a celebrity is determined by the subject of their next movie, or the group that is paying them the most at that particular time... just like the opinion of a pollie; its worth jack shiite.

[Seconds]

a 'celebrity' that comes out and publicly advocates for the right to own firearms, self defence etc is certainly refreshing, and a change in the trend where most of these tools, who are more than happy to be compensated with millions upon millions of dollars to create movies with wall to wall gun killing; then appear on the various gun-grabber pleas, calling for all common people to give up their guns..(check demand-a-plan parody ).

I think Bruce Willis did a bit on some interview show a while ago supporting them too. He's made a hell of a living in action movies obviously.

Probably seems as made publicity / bad for the career by most. Their agent tells them to tow the line and give the anti-gun answers if pressed.

[David Brown]

I am not sure if I have posted this already but this is a case of …..how was this lady to defend and protect herself……..wait for the cops to arrive?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-10/s ... ed/6534802

When seconds count………...

[pomemax]

I spoke to a guy 2 weekends ago that has just that a conceal carry permit IN NSW. He had the required trainning and a REAL good reason to have it .
They do exist but sort of like real hard to get same as Permit for sound moderator guy in a gun shop the other week came in asked do you have any sound moderators people in the shop all looked but he draged out a permit and of course all the people in shop had to look at it .