Gun laws relating to jewellers and pawnbrokers

[cooloox]

Hi everyone,

this is just a question out of curiosity. I was having a discussion with a friend of mine about gun laws in Australia Vs the U.S. He told me that in Australia pawnbrokers and jewellers are allowed to keep firearms on their premises for protective purposes and can even keep a loaded gun under the counter.

I know nothing about guns and very little about gun laws, but I find his claims very hard to believe and I think he is getting mixed up with what can be done in the U.S. Surely, even if a jeweller or pawnbroker had a gun licence they would be bound by the usual laws of having to store the gun in a securely fixed safe and the ammunition stored separately. Is his statement true or am I more on the right track?

[Seconds]

Hi Cooloox,

Sounds like a few things are getting muddled here by both of you.

A jeweller, pawnbroker etc. is not just allowed a firearm by default solely because they're a jeweller.

Given the nature of their business, valuables etc. They would be able to apply for a security license, carry permit etc. If they meet all the requirements for said permit it would be approved, but they don't just rock up to the gun store and say "Hey, I'm a jeweller, give me a pistol".

We hunters/target shooters have our firearms for the purpose of hunting and target shooting. When not in use in the field or at the range (e.g. at home) they must be stored securely, ammo separate etc.

A license/firearm issued for the purposes of security is given for different reasons so "the usual" laws are not the same as for hunters and target shooters. What good is a security guard's firearm if it's locked up out the back and during a robbery he has to go unlock it, get the ammo which is stored separately, blah blah blah.... None obviously.

The store/guard would have to secure his firearm appropriately at the end of the day, but during business hours it would be "in use" so would be present and in a ready state, not stored.

[Lorgar]

This was about 10 years ago...

When I was living in NSW a family friend of mine was a jeweller and regularly carried valuable quantities of jewellery between stores, trade shows etc.

He applied and was approved for a concealed carry permit for security purposes. In the end he decided if push came to shove he probably couldn't pull the trigger so didn't actually carry in the end, cancelled the whole thing.

But he was approved after going through the application process.

Bear in mind here the kind of license we're talking about is for "security" not "self defence". Sounds like that's where your friend is getting mixed up to me.

[cooloox]

Thank you very much for the information, Seconds and Lorgar, It clarified things beautifully.

[brett1868]

In the late 80's early 90's I did some work for Opal miners carting uncut stone from the bush to the cutters in Sydney. I held the usual class of security license and with some references and letters from employers was able to obtain a Class 1A pistol license which I held for a number of years. The only condition on the license was that I "Use or carry the pistol solely for the purpose for which the license was issued". All I had to prove was that I was handling cash or valuables in excess of $50k which was easy enough, wait 6 weeks for approval and pay the $27 license fee. Concealed carry whilst initially fun turned out to be a large pain in the backside as I liked to have a drink in those days but having to go home, secure the pistol then head out again as I couldn't drink whilst armed.

[Title_II]

In the USA you can carry a loaded gun on your person just about wherever you want, including your business, of course. So he's not confusing it with us.

Actually, I think New Jersey and Maryland have laws like that. They are 2 of the 3 remaining states out of 50 where people can't carry guns.

[VICHunter]

All I had to prove was that I was handling cash or valuables in excess of $50k which was easy enough, wait 6 weeks for approval and pay the $27 license fee.

That's a pretty high threshold IMO.

So if you're carrying 45k every day you can't get a security license?

[brett1868]

All I had to prove was that I was handling cash or valuables in excess of $50k which was easy enough, wait 6 weeks for approval and pay the $27 license fee.

That's a pretty high threshold IMO.

So if you're carrying 45k every day you can't get a security license?

Security license not a problem as you need bugger all to qualify for that but the 1A pistol license was a whole new level of justification. As I was an individual the license had to be a 1A as I was deemed the licensee unlike companies that can issue a pistol to an employee on their company license and the employee is covered by the company license.

[vexesus]

And so was it actually you with the security license, or did you have to register a 1 man company and have that entity as the license holder?

It will be different but I looked at the firearms dealer application form a while ago and it could only be applied for by a legal entity, not an individual.

IIRC.

[brett1868]

And so was it actually you with the security license, or did you have to register a 1 man company and have that entity as the license holder?

It will be different but I looked at the firearms dealer application form a while ago and it could only be applied for by a legal entity, not an individual.

IIRC.

The 1A license applies to individuals and for companies it was a class 1C. With a class C license a company could obtain multiple handguns based on volume of work. Guards who needed to be armed went into the office and the duty manager issued them a sidearm with the details recorded in a register supplied by the FAR. I considered it quite stupid at the time but hey, it was the 80"s and Port Arthur hadn't occurred. Apply for a security license, get a job with some company and without any training you're out on the street with a loaded pistol within a few weeks....The security industry has come along a fair bit since those days and now there's better checks and mandatory education prior to being armed.

[NuZo]

Banks also used to train and arm tellers/clerks with 38 revolvers back in the 80's. Pretty serious stuff.

Cheers,

Nuzo

[brett1868]

Banks also used to train and arm tellers/clerks with 38 revolvers back in the 80's. Pretty serious stuff.

Cheers,

Nuzo

Correct, Many branch managers were issued with J frame S&W 38's as part of the training. Was a case recently where an old desk from a bank was sold, the buyer found a loaded pistol stuck in the back of top draw when he started stripping it to restore it. Good sense prevailed and he had the local cops come over and collect it with out any of the BS media hype.

[lole]

All shatter proof glass and spring up screens these days instead I suppose.