How America comes to grips with a mass shooting

[Title_II]

In my Comonwealth:

Armed civilians stand guard in front of military recruiting center near York






James Fitzgerald and a group of friends are armed to defend the Armed Forces Career Center. The center is in the Manchester Crossroads shopping center along Route 30 in Manchester Township. A wife of a recruiter said she was thankful for their support.

http://www.ydr.com/local/ci_28508978/ar ... ing-center

Elsewhere:

Man armed with AR-15 stands guard at Virginia military recruiting offices



http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/29573755/m ... ing-office

Georgia

HIRAM, Ga. -

The morning after a deadly attack on two military centers in Chattanooga, residents in Hiram are standing watch outside the local recruiting office with their personal firearms. It is their unique way of honoring the fallen Marines and they said to protect the lives of those who serve in the military.



http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/29572644/hiram-watch

God Bless the Navy, God Bless the Marines, and God Bless the United States of America.

"You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done."

[Title_II]

I just found out one of my mates did a shift at a local recruiting office today so I guess I have no excuse. I'm going to have to do it and get another person to do it.

[David Brown]

When the public has to do what the government shoulda done!!!

Well done, sadly too late.

[Title_II]

If you will allow me to shift the subject a little, those 5 Marines and Seamen, and the people now guarding their places of work, were more concerned with the destiny of humanity than their own lives.

It may not be too late just yet. And as long as I breath it is not too late as far as I am concerned.

[David Brown]

If you will allow me to shift the subject a little, those 5 Marines and Seamen, and the people now guarding their places of work, were more concerned with the destiny of humanity than their own lives.

It may not be too late just yet. And as long as I breath it is not too late as far as I am concerned.

Title_II,

You are most certainly correct, and I am with you 100%

However my point was aimed squarely at the gubbermint, who just like ours, fail us repeatedly. It is too late to provide the protection of simple armed defence force people being able to defend rather than be a victim.

Its never too late to start the defence of humanity in any fashion. But we the people need to start taking more care of ourselves and less faith in the government to protect us and those who work for them.

As usual I reckon we are in heated agreement with each other!

[Title_II]

As we say in PA, You got that right!

[Strikey]

Fair dinkum, all I see is a whole lot of wrong, if they are the best people for protection duties, middle aged overweight dare I say " rednecks " then America you have some problems

[North East]

Fair dinkum, all I see is a whole lot of wrong, if they are the best people for protection duties, middle aged overweight dare I say " rednecks " then America you have some problems

[XP22]

I think throwing ****** at anyone willing to help voluntarily is disgusting, I have seen the same mentality out on the job. Last year I witnessed a couple of older SES members being ridiculed as being past it, but hey they were on the roof with me trying to keep the weather out of a disabled persons home whilst the arseholes threw ****** from ground level.

It is not as these volunteers are being paid so perhaps have a think before gobbing off.

[North East]

I think throwing ****** at anyone willing to help voluntarily is disgusting, I have seen the same mentality out on the job. Last year I witnessed a couple of older SES members being ridiculed as being past it, but hey they were on the roof with me trying to keep the weather out of a disabled persons home whilst the arseholes threw ****** from ground level.

It is not as these volunteers are being paid so perhaps have a think before gobbing off.

Australia does not need armed militia....I got no problems with the SES....I don't want them having firearms though for there work.

[JOY]

I think I'd have to agree with xp22 it seems to be a national sport here sledging good people with great ideas and kind hearts.
Shame on you guys for thinking more highly of yourselves than you ought.
When did helping out become a crime in Australia ,or in fact anywhere.
I'm all for volunteering when ever it's needed.

[XP22]

I think throwing ****** at anyone willing to help voluntarily is disgusting, I have seen the same mentality out on the job. Last year I witnessed a couple of older SES members being ridiculed as being past it, but hey they were on the roof with me trying to keep the weather out of a disabled persons home whilst the arseholes threw ****** from ground level.

It is not as these volunteers are being paid so perhaps have a think before gobbing off.

Australia does not need armed militia....I got no problems with the SES....I don't want them having firearms though for there work.

No, you have missed my point. You are sitting there gobbing off at someone willing to stand up and do their best to help. Throwing ridicule at someone simply for being middle aged, even though they are contirubting their time to a cause they think is worthwhile.

Your attitude is unimpressive to say the least and no different to the louts I dealt with last year.

[North East]

I think throwing ****** at anyone willing to help voluntarily is disgusting, I have seen the same mentality out on the job. Last year I witnessed a couple of older SES members being ridiculed as being past it, but hey they were on the roof with me trying to keep the weather out of a disabled persons home whilst the arseholes threw ****** from ground level.

It is not as these volunteers are being paid so perhaps have a think before gobbing off.

Australia does not need armed militia....I got no problems with the SES....I don't want them having firearms though for there work.

No, you have missed my point. You are sitting there gobbing off at someone willing to stand up and do their best to help. Throwing ridicule at someone simply for being middle aged, even though they are contirubting their time to a cause they think is worthwhile.

Your attitude is unimpressive to say the least and no different to the louts I dealt with last year.

Since when did I gob off about the SES? Those blokes in USA are forming an armed militia...this is Australia.

[JOY]

"Since when did I gob off "

I have to say it seems every post your gobbing off about someone or something
serious NorthEast you tell others to grow up.
Do you have a mirror @ your place by any chance.

[Title_II]

Goodness gracious there is some ugliness here.

This middle aged person will be standing like an idiot redneck I suppose this Friday and possibly this weekend.

If you think it is sad that middle aged Americans tend to be the ones that get things done, then fine. I just think it is a strange way of looking at things. Perhaps non-middle aged, whatever Australians should take stock of their situation. Regarding military service, I don't know if you have had newspaper service over there, but many middle aged Americans are vets.

[pajamatime]

Fair dinkum, all I see is a whole lot of wrong, if they are the best people for protection duties, middle aged overweight dare I say " rednecks " then America you have some problems

Disappointed in your behaviour m8.
Maybe you should ease up on the moonshine there cobba and cease picking fights.

[wrenchman]

it only takes one person tp return fire on the cowards them young men should still be here

[tom604]

Goodness gracious there is some ugliness here.

This middle aged person will be standing like an idiot redneck I suppose this Friday and possibly this weekend.

If you think it is sad that middle aged Americans tend to be the ones that get things done, then fine. I just think it is a strange way of looking at things. Perhaps non-middle aged, whatever Australians should take stock of their situation. Regarding military service, I don't know if you have had newspaper service over there, but many middle aged Americans are vets.

dont judge us all by a few and yes it is getting ugly on here, mainly two or three "warriors" give them a few years and maybe they will mature ,maybe

[Title_II]

Tom 604 - It's cool, I was more surprised by all the sudden fighting and insults than anything else. Just because this place is normally so polite and grown up.

Reading it again it's not a big deal. Kind of funny

I do still want to thank all the people who stuck up for us. Thank you

[XP22]

This middle aged person will be standing like an idiot redneck I suppose this Friday and possibly this weekend.

I salute you.

Sometimes we are simply the only ones left to do the job, either through time, work or family restraints. I am sure your country appreciates your efforts.

[Gwion]

Pot, this is Kettle.......

I find it strange that the one throwing 'bully' around is the one hurling the first stone in every encounter on these threads. Ever so slightly amusing but mostly tedious.

Can you both stop dragging every thread into your personal bickering?

[Strikey]

Okay, I see this thread has been cleaned up so I will explain my stance on this, I stated exactly how I saw those photos that were posted and I am not convinced it is a good look for firearm owners in the U.S.A. Thanks to the anti's and the media most people who have no clue about firearms see America as having a " gun culture ", something they are trying to put on us here in OZ, the way I see it having armed volunteer civilians standing around in front of buildings only enforces this belief. Are these volunteers actually authorised to do this? Are they accredited similar to security staff? Has anyone done background checks, mental health checks on these volunteers, some of them may actually be the types you need to guard against. Having armed civilians guarding these premises may make them targets for anything from the media to the anti gun mobs to some nutbag driving past who decides to have a crack at them. I am sure we are all well aware that as we age our reflexes, reaction times, co-ordination skills diminish and are not at all like when we were younger, now if a situation arises are these middle aged overweight people ( don' t worry, I am in that category also ) going to be able to make the correct call, especially with the adrenalin pumping? If a situation happened and shots fired, there were some stray shots ( if there is any automatics ) who is going to explain to the parents of the kid that may have been totally unaware of what's going on playing in the sandpit a couple of hundred yards away and cops one of these stray shots? The fallout from something like that happening would be horrendous, both legal and the media, I just think there has to be a better option for dealing with this other than having armed volunteer civilians.
Hope I made some sense out of that but I can't understand why anyone else is not seeing the big picture or was I looking at the wrong photos, seems like it was easier for some people to launch into personal attacks

[pajamatime]

Strikey,

You are entitled to your opinion and I appreciate them. I understand that what you are trying to say is that a hoplophobe might see such "photos" as offensive and it being on a Australian gun forum might excite them in the wrong way.

anyways in relation to potential injury or death to someone close to that location I feel is somewhat rare. Try not to over think...thats what hoplophobes get drugged up on.

take into consideration
1. they are most likely using a hollow point ammunition which significantly reduces the possibility of a bullet going straight through a target and coming out the other side and hitting other people.
2. they probably know how to shoot a firearm?
3. they probably know how to shoot a firearm under pressure?
4. the very presence of them with their firearms has a high deterrence rate
5. hopefully they are more then aware of what is around them and who is within reasonable distance and line of sight.

with that said what you have discussed are very real possibilities but unlikely ones considering the variables in play.
I hope I don't offend...trying to balance out the thought process.

Edit: might I add if this is what you are worried about you must get pretty stressed out when a police officer with a glock holstered on his belt walking around ? given police get allot less training with those firearms then civilians do.

[Title_II]

One out of nine people in my Commonwealth carry a firearm. When you go to a grocery store, or a park, or to dinner, you are surrounded by dozens of firearms at all times. Somehow it never causes any problems. Legal gun carriers are less likely to commit murders than police. Accidents are almost unheard of in public, and I have never heard of a civilian carrier hitting a bystander (unlike police) although I am sure there must be an example out there somewhere.

If I stand in front of a military recruiting center it doesn't suddenly make me more of a safety risk than when I am going through my daily life. As a funny coincidence, my friend who did this the other day IS trained and certified as an armed guard. Does that make him safer? LOL, no. Many of them are bozos, no disrespect to my friend (it's a retirement job). He is also a vet, as am I. I suspect many of those doing this are vets.

As far as being injured or killed in an attack is concerned, well duh! We are there, although mostly symbolically, because of the small but real threat of an attack. To put our lives on the line and fight to the death if necessary.

Does displaying arms attract trouble? It mostly deters trouble. Might a crazy take a pop at us? I guess. Are cops bullet magnets because they carry a gun? No. When I drive down the road, there is no barrier between me and oncoming traffic. The only thing keeping me alive is trust that the other driver won't turn and hit me head on. I'm putting a whole lot of trust in a whole lot of random people I've never met. Seems to work out.

[XP22]

Fair dinkum, all I see is a whole lot of wrong, if they are the best people for protection duties, middle aged overweight dare I say " rednecks " then America you have some problems

Nope, I have had a think about and I stand in exactly the same position as before: Your attitude stinks.

You see a whole lot of wrong------ I see a hole in government procedures, that allowed people to die, being plugged.

Are they the best people for the job?- ------Well when they are the only ones willing to do it then they must be.

Are they middle aged and overweight?---- well honestly who cares, many cops and security could also be described that way.

Rednecks?---------- Well I would rather be an armed redneck than a sycophant such as yourself who would rather the "bad guys" fire away unopposed than risk offending the media or the anti gun brigade.

Very disappointing.

[XP22]

Strikey,

Edit: might I add if this is what you are worried about you must get pretty stressed out when a police officer with a glock holstered on his belt walking around ? given police get allot less training with those firearms then civilians do.

Especially if that cop is "middle aged and overweight", even worse if he is an outback "redneck".

[tom604]

just a heads up,just about all mass shootings, if not all, happen in a gun free zone. no one has a gun except the loony= free targets

the loonys that do these shootings are cowards and when they meet resistance they give up or shoot themselves

[anthillinside]

just a heads up,just about all mass shootings, if not all, happen in a gun free zone. no one has a gun except the loony= free targets

the loonys that do these shootings are cowards and when they meet resistance they give up or shoot themselves

Common thread of most of the mass murders that people want to ignore because it doesn't fit into their view guns.
And Title_II's last post is also the most ignored argument against gun control fir te same reason.

If t takes overweight fat rednecks to DO SOMETHING instead of gabbing on and on and doing NOTHING then I'm all for the fat overweight rednecks and would be proud to count myself amoungs them.

For the detractors, open the other eye.

[wrenchman]

redneck is not a insult here in the states it a term from the appalachian mtn area now if you called some one a hillbilly from that area you would be in for fight my family is from kentucky

[trekin]

One out of nine people in my Commonwealth carry a firearm. When you go to a grocery store, or a park, or to dinner, you are surrounded by dozens of firearms at all times. Somehow it never causes any problems. Legal gun carriers are less likely to commit murders than police. Accidents are almost unheard of in public, and I have never heard of a civilian carrier hitting a bystander (unlike police) although I am sure there must be an example out there somewhere.

If I stand in front of a military recruiting center it doesn't suddenly make me more of a safety risk than when I am going through my daily life. As a funny coincidence, my friend who did this the other day IS trained and certified as an armed guard. Does that make him safer? LOL, no. Many of them are bozos, no disrespect to my friend (it's a retirement job). He is also a vet, as am I. I suspect many of those doing this are vets.

As far as being injured or killed in an attack is concerned, well duh! We are there, although mostly symbolically, because of the small but real threat of an attack. To put our lives on the line and fight to the death if necessary.

Does displaying arms attract trouble? It mostly deters trouble. Might a crazy take a pop at us? I guess. Are cops bullet magnets because they carry a gun? No. When I drive down the road, there is no barrier between me and oncoming traffic. The only thing keeping me alive is trust that the other driver won't turn and hit me head on. I'm putting a whole lot of trust in a whole lot of random people I've never met. Seems to work out.

And the irony is it's the same administration who are not willing to protect their military personnel, who are trying to take guns from, you, the people who will!