Flood of adler ... Ban ban ban again FFS!

[juststarting]

And here we go again, in the background behind the NFA joke

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-or ... 2404dfd648

[adam]

And here we go again, in the background behind the NFA joke

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-or ... 2404dfd648

Can't read it - says I have to subscribe. Can you give a bit of an idea of the content. (There's no way I'm paying to subscribe for propaganda )

[Stubbles McBeard]

Paywalled. Can you copy/paste it for us?

[adam]

Doing a google search on that URL I got the title:

Flood of Adler A110 model shotguns into Victoria prompts calls for ban

Looking at http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news-sitemap.xml they have some "interesting" keywords:

Australia, Victoria, University of Sydney, prime minister, Daily Telegraph, consistent approach, John Howard, illicit market, Michael Keenan, federal governments, Continued Page, gun laws, Federal Justice Minister, military personnel, massacre victims, Australian Institute of Criminology, FOUNDATION CHIEF EXECUTIVE, shooting massacre victims, Pat Allen, Australian Prime, temporary ban, rapid succession, Lever action, Samantha Lee, modified version, national reforms, Nanette, Australian dying, Philip Alpers, gun-related homicides, rapid-fire shotguns, Gun control experts, landmark petition, semi-automatic-style weapons, semi-automatic firearms, automatic guns, gun-related offences, historic petition, rapid-hit shotgun, would-be military personnel, appropriate access, guns due, wannabe military personnel, guns classification, violence petition, nightmare event, GALLOWAY PATRICK, control experts fear

I think they forgot to add histerical, hoplophobia, doomsday and Armageddon to the list....

[juststarting]

I really should teach you folks how to "fish", anyway...

What gets me is a graphic (http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/8cc4e7ff0c224fc4ae0aa1dc57f4e48a?width=650) in the article showing a trending up chart of gun crime in VIC. Also random sprinkles of Port Arthur trivia (of course). If you are saying that the crime is going up then existing laws are obviously benign. I just can't understand how there are so many retards out there who just bite and swallow this whole. Tighten the law, then graphic to demonstrate that the laws are not working, then using that contradiction to argue the counter point. My intellect just dropped, I am f*ing sad for humanity.

From now on, I am not reading this repetitive sh*t. In a month it will blow over, everyone will forget about it and just f*ck it, I am done reading this garbage!
==========================================
Ban this malicious menace! An Exclusive!

A FLOOD of new rapid-fire shotguns into Australia has prompted a landmark petition to ban the semi-automatic-style weapons.

Gun control experts fear the proliferation of the Adler A110 model due to loopholes will have deadly consequences, with more than 600 registered in Victoria since September.

The Alannah and Madeline Foundation is launching the petition, almost 20 years on from the Port Arthur massacre, which saw 35 people shot dead.

Its “Keep Australia safe from gun violence” petition comes as the Herald Sun can reveal gun-related offences in Victoria have more than doubled over the past decade.

The Turkish-made Adler A110 — which uses a lever ­action to load cartridges into the barrel — has many similarities to pump-action and semi-automatic firearms, but is classified as a shotgun.

This has resulted in a flood of imports since it went on sale last year.

Former prime minister John Howard told the Herald Sun that it was “incontestable” that reforms passed in the wake of the Tasmanian horror had reduced the number of gun-related homicides.

“I would be totally opposed to any weakening of the laws that were enacted 20 years ago,” he said.

“My sense is that there has been a little bit of fraying, a tiny fraying at the edges.”

Police Association of Tasmania president Pat Allen said he was opposed to the relaxing of gun laws and the importation of the Adler A110.

“How many ducks do you want to go out and shoot at once?” he said.

“You have a lot of wannabe military personnel wanting these firearms. Why? What is the point of them?

“If we start relaxing the laws, it’s an insult to the memories of the dead and injured from Port Arthur,” Mr Allen said.

Walter Mikac, whose daughters, Alannah and Madeline, and wife Nanette died at Port Arthur, said there was no reason for Australians to own semi-automatic or automatic guns.

“A significant legacy and one of the only good things to come of the 1996 Port Arthur tragedy, the day I lost my wife and children, was the establishment of the National Firearms Agreement 1996,” Mr Mikac said.

State and federal governments are considering whether to extend a ban on a seven-round Adler as part of a review of the NFA.

Gun control advocates argue the modified A110 — which can rapid-fire five 12-gauge cartridges — should also be classified as semi-automatic.

The Alannah and Madeline Foundation was set up in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre to protect children from violence.

Foundation chief executive Lesley Podesta urged people to sign the petition “for the safety of our children, their children and all generations to come”.

Federal Justice Minister Michael Keenan said guns classification was a matter for the states.

“The NFA is the same today as it was when it was struck by John Howard,” he said. “There has been no weakening of it and there is no intention to do so.”

Victoria Police said it was working with other states to ensure there was a “consistent approach to controlling appropriate access to this type of firearm”.

Shooting back: 3.2 million firearms in circulation again

GUN control experts warn Australians have restocked their gun lockers, with the number of firearms returning to pre-Port Arthur levels.

Although the country has destroyed nearly a million since the 1996 National Firearms Agreement, the total number of guns — legal and ­illegal — has returned to about 3.2 million.

This includes more than 250,000 long-arms and 10,000 handguns in the illicit market, according to the Australian Crime Commission.

Since Port Arthur, the risk of an Australian dying by gunshot has more than halved. But gun-related offences in Victoria have more than doubled in the last 10 years: 4791 were recorded in 2015.

Theft is the greatest source of illegal guns. The Australian Institute of Criminology estimates that between 1500 and 1800 firearms are being stolen each year.

Gun Control Australia chair Samantha Lee said rapid-fire guns like the Adler shotgun should be banned, as they could fall into the hands of criminals.

“All guns start out legal before they become illegal either via theft or rogue gun dealers,” she said. “The Adler is no different. Its rapid-fire capability would place it at high value within the illicit market.”

Gun control expert Philip Alpers, from the University of Sydney, said the most dangerous guns had been destroyed.

“After Port Arthur, the fall in gun deaths accelerated. Since then the risk of an Australian dying by gunshot has more than halved, and there’s no evidence of murderers moving to other methods,” he said.

“Although we’ve destroyed and replaced about a million firearms, the population increased in the same period by nearly a quarter. So our per capita rate of gun ownership remains 25 per cent lower than it was before Port Arthur.

“Australia sent semiautomatic rifles and shotguns to the smelter, but now the public safety focus is on handguns. The future to avoid is America’s out-of-control infestation of firearms.”

[juststarting]

There's pure rage by firearm owners in the comments section (I don't know why I do this to myself). Rational, logical and calm, yet rebuttals are emotional, here's my favourite:

anti: I dare any person in favour of these guns to look into Walter Mikac's eyes and state your case.
response: No problem, as terrible as it was I dare you to stare into the eyes of my cousin and tell her why you still drive a car after what happened to her son!

Perfect response. And then we follow the predictable fall-back pattern of people, once completely depleted of any points or rather proven wrong:

'guns are designed to kill people'

So are knifes!!!!

In fact bunch of everyday technology (even medical) has primary military purpose of either killing or killing faster or killing bigger.

Yep, I am done, no more reading bulls**t for a while, makes me sad and angry.

Going to get a coffee, calm down, think happy thoughts about couple of shooting trips booked-in this month.

[adam]

Is there any possible way that people in the firearm industry can consider a class action against GCA, the Herald sun, and others for deliberately and repeatedly reporting false information that hurts the business?

“You have a lot of wannabe military personnel wanting these firearms. Why? What is the point of them?" Seriously? Vicpol are the ones that screen and authorise people. Why the hell is vicpol authorising this to 'wannabe military personnel' - or do they know that this is not the case but lie anyway.

I too am over the @#$#@ - gotta find a way of taking the attack to them. I have no problems with people who are genuinely concerned about crime, violence and are willing to discuss facts and truth. I have a huge problem with people who have an agenda, are completely blinded, tunnel vision and will deliberately and repeatedly lie to try and get their way.

[juststarting]

Ha! Interesting!

[juststarting]

Any legal experts here?

[southeast varmiter]

This was all planned from January. The NFA review failed to meet expectations of GCA. Now they are running full steam.
There is also new firearm legislation that is on ice. I have learned about it in the last week. One can bet there is a coordinated agenda to drive change.
I suspect they have also significantly underestimated the resurgence and popularity of shooting in this country.
We've also been fked over once. Although 20 years ago, I'm sure its not going to easily happen again.

[juststarting]

Well, they said 6000 adlers, that's 6000 votes, but then other owners plus other lever action owners, etc easily lose votes by tens if not hundreds of thousands

[adam]

A Islamic terrorist commits a horrific act after obtaining the firearm (from my understanding - at a mosque), and the government and media, plus their readers run to the defense of Islam and Muslim immigrants - declaring that we shouldn't judge the others by the acts of a few criminals.

But yet - these same 'level headed' people are quick to judge and condemn every legal firearm owner as being part of the problem - adding lies and deceipt and false information in for good measure. Friggin hypocrites.

Almost enough to make me want to give up my day job and study law so I could get these guys for defamation. Is there any legal experts here? Can anything be done to stop the lying? Where is the SSAA on this?

[adam]

Well, they said 6000 adlers, that's 6000 votes, but then other owners plus other lever action owners, etc easily lose votes by tens if not hundreds of thousands

I suspect that means little to them... they might get kicked out, but they'll be back again in a few elections time...

[juststarting]

Oh ye SSAA... Interesting, what can they do? Perhaps a very awkward YouTube video, lol

[adam]

Oh ye SSAA... Interesting, what can they do? Perhaps a very awkward YouTube video, lol

Well, that's where I'm thinking legal action. They're an organization. There are a lot of false and misleading statements being made that discredit them and their members (firearm owners) from another organisation.

I'm sure legal action has been taken by one organisation against another before for defamation.

Class action? Sue? I'm no legal expert, but people and the media should be held accountable for the lies they portray. GCA might be a good position to start targeting them. Even if suing was unsuccessful - it would make for a good media story possibly forcing the lies problem more visible. 'SSAA are suing GCA for lying, deceit and defamation against law abiding firearm owners'... The media loves controversy - give them some so the truth can become more visible...

Or - as I've mentioned in a separate thread - start another oranisation against gun crime which can be 'real gun control experts' - people who actually know something about firearms - and the crime and can be the media's go to people for comment for real information? Gun crime wouldn't just include criminals (although it should) - but also include other people who are defamating false slander against LFO's.

That's just 2 ideas from someone who doesn't know much. I dunno - it's a bit off the cuff and I'm a bit hot under the collar at the moment so maybe it's not the best of ideas - but either way - I think it's about time we turned things around and took the fight to these lying sod's rather than being on the back foot waiting for them to make the next run. They'll never stop until they're held accountable and forced to pay for their vicious & deliberate lies.

[juststarting]

I would love to see what SSAA has to say on the matter. Think I might email them tonight or perhaps an open letter on the blog? I don't know. I do agree with you completely though.

[Gwion]

Welcome to the ostrich club, JustStarting!

Although, just ignoring the hype doesn't mean you can't make a difference in your own sphere of influence.

[Heckler303]

I could spend ages picking apart this article with every lie that they've woven into it, but the time it would take for me to do so, I could've bagged every rabbit on king island!

Lets move this to FOU, shooters union or even the SSAA

[Stubbles McBeard]

I really should teach you folks how to "fish", anyway...

Sorry mate, was on my phone, at work. Thanks for the link, was better than me trying to google-fu it from the passenger seat of my truck.

[juststarting]

I really should teach you folks how to "fish", anyway...

Sorry mate, was on my phone, at work. Thanks for the link, was better than me trying to google-fu it from the passenger seat of my truck.

No problem.

[juststarting]

Welcome to the ostrich club, JustStarting!

Although, just ignoring the hype doesn't mean you can't make a difference in your own sphere of influence.

Have... 2 more licence shooters because of yours truly, kinda proud. One wanted a .22 though, so you know, I take it as a win, but still, feel like I could never conditioned him better for a .308 as a first fun

[scotty87]

If they don't change the Weapons Act all that can happen is the Attorney General could ban imports of the Adler, kind of like knives that can be opened with one hand, thumb notches etc, not illegal but a banned import.

It wont stop you from buying the Pardus lever action, which other firearm shops have sold like wildfire without a mention in the media at all, or purchasing an existing IAC lever action shotgun, or whatever the adler gets re imported as after the greens run out of puff.

I doubt the higher ups in the police force has any issue over the lever action shotgun being in CAT A or it would have been banned years ago, this is just the media has got their claws into something to sensationalise to sell a story, best thing to do is not click their links, don't give their papers traffic.

One thing in our favour and against these "anti" groups is majority of Australians are becoming inherintly lazy with the rising technology age, clicking a link, signing a petition, getting crap emailed to you constantly from crazy greens, if it doesn't affect you personally and immediately, most people just don't care so I doubt their campaign will get a whole lot of traction, one or two high profile spots on TV, then nothing.

A good thing about Australian culture though is we still have great bulls**t filtering, as soon as these "antis" get in the spotlight they almost always shoot themselves in the foot straight away, until they come up with a non inflammatory, coherent, facts based argument, what comes out of their mouth most likely will get dismissed.

In other news, triple J news reported today on a young female shooter becoming the youngest Australian to make the 16 strong Olympic shooting team so our sport doesn't always cop a flogging in the media.

[on_one_wheel]

The harder GCA try , the more transparent and stupid they ook.

Only they can believe their own bs. now.

Every time I see recent photos of John Howard he looks very upset, the GCA crew including John Howard ( yes they're a team ) are making their own lives very depressing by focusing on something that upsets them all the time ... and to that I say SUCKED IN LOOSERS!

I get comfort in the knowledge of that.

[brett1868]

I protested this latest crap in the best way I know, by ordering an Adler synthetic combo

[juststarting]

Ditto

[Title_II]

“All guns start out legal before they become illegal either via theft or rogue gun dealers,” she said. “The Adler is no different. Its rapid-fire capability would place it at high value within the illicit market.”

If somebody steals your car does it become an illegal car?

[bluerob]

I would love to see what SSAA has to say on the matter. Think I might email them tonight or perhaps an open letter on the blog? I don't know. I do agree with you completely though.

There's a constant divide between the Australian shooting representatives, i.e. the SSAA, APA et all. Has been for at least 30 odd years. When have you ever seen the SSAA in the media, regularly promoting shooting instead of adhoc defensive interviews?

In one of my recent APA newsletter magazines, the editorial discusses how the SSAA took the applause for bugger all input in recent negotiations I wasn't personally involved, but, I'm quite sure that the APA wouldn't make such a comment if not warranted. This tells me that the divide aint gonna heal anytime soon.

If all shooters were represented equally (hunters and target shooters, pistol and shotgun etc) I think we'd have more clout. Remember what happened to Barrie Unsworth?

[adam]

I protested this latest crap in the best way I know, by ordering an Adler synthetic combo

I've got to admit - personally I haven't been interested in purchasing the adler - I haven't seen the need. My frustration about GCA was because other LFO's are being affected, and I'm sick and tired of BS and any LFO being harassed.

But now - with all the media hype, I have to confess that I've become a little curious - wondering what I'm really missing out on... are they really that better - maybe I should consider buying one.

What do they go for?

I can't help but wonder that Adler have actually sold multiple times more than they would have if no one even heard the name adler from the media...

GCA in a strange way may have actually been promoting Adler without even realising it. GCA might be Adler's best advertiser.

[Stubbles McBeard]

I protested this latest crap in the best way I know, by ordering an Adler synthetic combo

I've got to admit - personally I haven't been interested in purchasing the adler - I haven't seen the need. My frustration about GCA was because other LFO's are being affected, and I'm sick and tired of BS and any LFO being harassed.

But now - with all the media hype, I have to confess that I've become a little curious - wondering what I'm really missing out on... are they really that better - maybe I should consider buying one.

What do they go for?

I can't help but wonder that Adler have actually sold multiple times more than they would have if no one even heard the name adler from the media...

GCA in a strange way may have actually been promoting Adler without even realising it. GCA might be Adler's best advertiser.

Yeah you're right, best advertising adler arms have ever had I'd say. Although, when I save my pennies, I'll be seriously looking at the 20" Pardus in synthetic and nickel. Sexy.

http://www.protactical.com.au/browse-pr ... -20-marine

[Dexer]

My concern is all of this "lever this" ... "lever that" is going to flow onto the ban of lever action rifles, or at least people calling for it. Despite the fact they've been around for over 100 years. No massacres yet that I am aware of. Besides, good luck reloading one in an "assault" situation.