6.5x52mm Carcano

[bladeracer]

So, I took my father-in-law's 1940 Remington 510 .22 into town to transfer it to my licence...and came home with two more rifles - he saw me coming from a long way off
An M91/38 Short Rifle in 6.5x52mm, 21" barrel and cavalry sling swivels.
And an M38 Husqvarna (turned-down bolt handle) in 6.5x55mm, 24" barrel, scoped with a 4x32 Nikko Stirling Silver Crown.

The Carcano I've been wanting mainly to try the cartridge out, but he spotted me glancing at the Swede as well and tossed me a deal I couldn't refuse.
Both look like they've done plenty of work, which is exactly how I like to see military rifles.
I owned a sporterised M96 and an original M38 (Carl Gustav - straight bolt handle) as a kid and I hope this one shoots as well as they did, both were tack drivers though.
But the Carcano is a new one for me, although straight away it strikes me as a great pig rifle more than anything else.
So, if you're familiar with these and want to offer some insight on the rifle or the cartridge I'm all ears, particularly on whether you've had any success with .264" bullets in the .268" Carcano bore.

It'll be a week or two before I have dies and brass and find some .268" bullet moulds.

[Tripod]

I am in the same boat and haven't shot mine yet either, I did pick up some loaded ammo at $25 a box to get me started. CBE do .268 moulds.

[happyhunter]

Bit of history behind the Carcano. JFK and Mussolini's assassinations come to mind.

[NukeBOMB88]

I'm fairly sure that PPU make a .268 load for the Carcano

[bladeracer]

I am in the same boat and haven't shot mine yet either, I did pick up some loaded ammo at $25 a box to get me started. CBE do .268 moulds.

An advantage to having two 6.5's is I can try the .264" bullets in the Carcano and if they don't work I can still use them in the Swede
For a start I need to see if I can buy some #2 Buck shotshells so I can slug the bore, would be good to sort that tomorrow.
I'm going to order 6.5x55mm Collet Dies first and see if I can use those to neck-size the 6.5x52mm brass as I don't think anybody does collet dies in 6.5x52mm.
CBE do two moulds at $174 each with handles, which is pretty steep for the amount of work I'm likely to do with them. I might look at making a .268" sizing die and see if I can push some 7mm cast bullets through it.
I'll make a list of every .264" and .268" mould I can find.
And I'm going through sites tonight listing every 6.5mm bullet I can find.

[bladeracer]

Bit of history behind the Carcano. JFK and Mussolini's assassinations come to mind.

Yep, this is the same model that killed 25% of all assassinated US presidents.
I don't think it was used on Musso though, he was machinegunned I think.

[Tripod]

Strange as it may seem swaging them down doesn't work as well as bumping them up, When you swage them down you get a bit of spring back in the jacket which can leave the core loose, Bumping them up means the lead core is expanded tight inside the jacket.

[bladeracer]

Strange as it may seem swaging them down doesn't work as well as bumping them up, When you swage them down you get a bit of spring back in the jacket which can leave the core loose, Bumping them up means the lead core is expanded tight inside the jacket.

I'm talking about cast lead bullets though.
I did bounce some ideas for bumping jacketed bullets up four-thou off my girlfriend tonight though

[bladeracer]

http://www.osaaustralia.com.au/products/projectiles/rifle-projectiles/6-5mm-268-caliber-268-carcano/
hornady make a bullet for the carcano

First one I found
I'll post a list once I get it together, maybe others will find it useful.

[bladeracer]

Carcano 6.5x52mm jacketed bullets.
Out of 29 manufacturers these are all I've found in .268":
Hornady 160gn RN
PPU 123gn SPRN
PPU 139gn FMJBT

When I get through the lead bullets and moulds I'll add them.

I've found 146 jacketed bullets available in .264" though.
Interestingly, PPU seem to differentiate their 6.5x55mm bullets as .263".

[bladeracer]

I forgot.
PPU offers 6.5x52mm ammunition in 123gn and 139gn .268", but they also offer the 156gn .263" loaded ammo so maybe standard 6.5mm bullets work just fine in the Carcano?

[No1Mk3]

G'day bladeracer,
You will be very unlikely to have any joy using .264 in the Tomato Stake. Dozens of us over many years have failed to get consistency in the overwhelming majority of rifles/short rifles/carbines. A very few shot ok, but all shot considerably better using surplus ammo, and many shot very well using .268 handloads. The Hornady bullet is very good, with more than a few Mauser K98 fanboys cracking it when losing to a FAT42 or an early 91. I only have 3 Carcano's and a 1915 converted Vetterli, but all of them need the .268 to be consistent at 300 meters, Save the hassle and start with the Hornady, Cheers.

[bladeracer]

G'day bladeracer,
You will be very unlikely to have any joy using .264 in the Tomato Stake. Dozens of us over many years have failed to get consistency in the overwhelming majority of rifles/short rifles/carbines. A very few shot ok, but all shot considerably better using surplus ammo, and many shot very well using .268 handloads. The Hornady bullet is very good, with more than a few Mauser K98 fanboys cracking it when losing to a FAT42 or an early 91. I only have 3 Carcano's and a 1915 converted Vetterli, but all of them need the .268 to be consistent at 300 meters, Save the hassle and start with the Hornady, Cheers.

That's the sort of information I'm looking for
Hornady is my starting point for sure, but I want to chase up some of those PPU bullets as well.

[bladeracer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrp7QLSlKD4

[Wm.Traynor]

Interesting vid bladeracer

[bladeracer]

Yes, one of the more unusual bolt-action to semi-auto conversions I've seen.

I managed to slug the bore today.
0.268"
Which is good in as much as it's not overly worn.
I read that some Carcano's have turned up chambered in 6.5x54mm Mannlicher Shoenauer with the .264" bore, which can be a problem if you fire full-power .268" Carcano 6.5x52mm jacketed loads in it.
I'm going to do a chamber cast regardless, but for now I'm fairly confident it is indeed 6.5x52mm.
I got 6.5x55mm brass today but I'm still waiting on the 6.5x52mm stuff so I can try some .264" bullets and see if they work.

I also got an MDT LSS chassis for my Ruger American's today. Waiting on the buffer tube and a ten-round mag and then I'll shoot some 7mm-08 groups.

[Tripod]

Hey bladeracer, Did you get any loading clips with your Carcano? I didn't and can't find any local to me. Does anyone on here have any spares?

[bladeracer]

Hey bladeracer, Did you get any loading clips with your Carcano? I didn't and can't find any local to me. Does anyone on here have any spares?

I got one with the rifle, he bought it separately as he knew he'd never sell the rifle without a clip.
And I have ten coming from the US, I can send you some of those when they arrive, I'm never going to need ten of them but I'm sure I'm capable of losing them easily enough

[Tripod]

Hey bladeracer, Did you get any loading clips with your Carcano? I didn't and can't find any local to me. Does anyone on here have any spares?

I got one with the rifle, he bought it separately as he knew he'd never sell the rifle without a clip.
And I have ten coming from the US, I can send you some of those when they arrive, I'm never going to need ten of them but I'm sure I'm capable of losing them easily enough

Who in the US and how much? Numrich has them but the P&H kills it.

[bladeracer]

Who in the US and how much? Numrich has them but the P&H kills it.

Numrich.
Five Carcano clips, two magazine springs for the M38, and some screws, with postage was US$78 - no complaints from me about that price.

[Tripod]

Who in the US and how much? Numrich has them but the P&H kills it.

Numrich.
Five Carcano clips, two magazine springs for the M38, and some screws, with postage was US$78 - no complaints from me about that price.

If you are buying enough parts it is ok but I cant find anything else that they have that I need at the moment other than barrels which they won't ship international.

[bladeracer]

If you are buying enough parts it is ok but I cant find anything else that they have that I need at the moment other than barrels which they won't ship international.

You would need an import permit for a barrel, and it probably has to be shipped to a dealer anyway.
I'm half expecting Customs to grab it for the magazine springs.

I'm also chasing the brass stock disc for the M38 but they're out of stock, and I'm not paying the crazy Ebay prices for it.

[Tripod]

If you are buying enough parts it is ok but I cant find anything else that they have that I need at the moment other than barrels which they won't ship international.

You would need an import permit for a barrel, and it probably has to be shipped to a dealer anyway.
I'm half expecting Customs to grab it for the magazine springs.

I'm also chasing the brass stock disc for the M38 but they're out of stock, and I'm not paying the crazy Ebay prices for it.

It says in their website they don't send barrels internationally (and heaps of other stuff)
But yes I have bought stuff from them you just need to make sure to buy enough to make it worth the $40+ for P&H etc

[bladeracer]

It says in their website they don't send barrels internationally (and heaps of other stuff)
But yes I have bought stuff from them you just need to make sure to buy enough to make it worth the $40+ for P&H etc

No US seller should ship any items covered by ITAR, which would include barrels.
Are you looking for original military barrels?

[bladeracer]

Managed to do the chamber cast just now to confirm it is 6.5x52mm Carcano.
Struggling to find chamber dimensions but it fits cartridge dimensions very closely.
The only dimension that's out by a tad is the shoulder which is 0.0025" larger than the cartridge dimension.
Start of the bore is .2695" which shows 0.0015" of bore erosion but the throat is very nice so I'm happy with that.

[bladeracer]

100 new 6.5x52mm Carcano cases arrived today - $35 plus post.
Just waiting on bullets now

[bladeracer]

A bag of various 6.5mm bullets were in my mailbox on Friday
Tried some Hornady 95gn VMax's in the old girl, unsuccessfully
Still get a bloody big bang, but velocities were in the region of 700fps so the gas is overtaking the bullet in the barrel I think.
No keyholes out to 100m, but 400mm drop from 50m to 100m is not great
I've read that longer bullets with a lot more bearing surface can tend to obturate just enough to make them work so I'll try the heavier ones as well.

Two places are telling me not to expect the Hornady .268" bullets this year, and they're $1 a piece if I ever do get them.
I haven't found a source of PPU bullets at all.
I'm going to hone out a .264" Lee sizing die to .270" and use cast .278" bullets for now.
I'm using the 6.5x55mm dies to deprime, neck size and seat bullets as nobody makes collet dies for it.
And I'm waiting on the carcano-specific shell holder so I'm priming them in the vice for now.
I've also paper patched some 6mm bullets up to .270" but haven't fired those yet.

And if anybody is aware of some .268" bullets on a shelf somewhere, let me know

[bladeracer]

32gn of AR2206H pushed the .264" 95gn VMax's to 700fps.
30gn of AR2206H behind a Hornady .243 75gn HP patched to .270" makes 1990fps, and is within a few inches of point of aim at 25m without tumbling.
Making up a batch of them tonight to do some more testing

[bladeracer]

Bit of an update

I've had no luck finding .268" bullets anywhere. Hornady do small batches of a 160gn RN but the wait is long, and the cost is high. PPU do two bullets but I haven't found anybody that can supply those in Oz.
I've read that some people have had success with heavy blunt bullets. The long bearing surface allows the base of the bullet to obturate just enough to build pressure, so I have some 160gn RN .264's coming this week to try.

Paper-patching .243 bullets up to .270" works very well, but is fairly fiddly.
Cutting a .17WSM case in half and seating a .243 bullet into it to bring it up to .269" works even better, and is a little less fiddly. Gaznazdiac sent me several hundred empty .17WSM cases for the purpose - thanks Gaz

But I found a machine shop locally that is happy to try to make me some bullets on their CNC machines to my spec.
So I was up during the night on the lathe and turned up two designs of .268" bullet, a semi-spitzer boat tail, and a round nose along the lines of the original military bullet. In brass, they weigh 132gn and 149gn and are 1.300" and 1.285" long. I'll ask him to make make me 50 of each to test. I'm hoping that once I have a design, they'll be able to make them to any OD and any length by simply changing those dimensions. I'll also get him to make hollow point versions. He can also do them in copper if I want, but machining copper sucks, so I'd expect those to cost more.

And does anybody happen to have an original Carcano military round nose bullet I could borrow to make a drawing from?

[bladeracer]

If your keen for a bit of a drive, Holts down in colac had a stack of them.

Thanks Bentaz, just emailed them
Don't need to drive anywhere for bullets, I can get those by mail.