Metallic Silhouette targets...again

[bladeracer]

I've found a place that says they can make me steel silhouettes.
I'm emailing them the CAD drawings so they can price them for me.
I'm going through the rulebook to determine the specifications for them.

So far, I have the following:
The basics:
There are four silhouette shapes – chicken, pig, turkey and ram – all painted white (or any uniform colour that contrasts with the background).
The “feet” are made from the same thickness (+/- 10%) and material as the silhouette. The "feet" are welded centrally to the "legs" of the targets in both planes, except the chicken and turkey which are welded flush with the back edge of the leg.
A full set of silhouettes for a class would include ten of each shape, to allow placing in two banks of five, with the targets “facing” in opposite directions, at four firing distances – 40 silhouettes total. For most of us practicing at home I would think a single "set" of one of each silhouette would be sufficient, although two sets would allow you to face them in both directions.

From what I can gather trawling through the rulebooks, there are several different target classes, specifying at least six different size and/or thickness of targets. For practicing at home I would think most people would want to use the heaviest option when thickness options are given.

Full-size targets (33” by 26” ram) are 12.7mm thickness for chicken and pig, and 10mm thickness for turkey and ram. The “feet” are made from the same thickness (+/- 10%) as the silhouette. Bizalloy 360 is specified as minimum hardness. Feet are 76mm by 101mm for the chicken, a 50mm by 101mm long foot on each leg of the pig, 76mm by 200mm long for the turkey, and a 101mm by 150mm long foot on each leg of the ram.

Half-scale Pistol targets are 10mm thickness. Feet are all 50mm by 100mm long (two each on the pig and ram). Bizalloy 360 is specified as minimum hardness. The hole in the ram’s “horn” is optional.

Half-scale Smallbore targets are 10mm thickness for the chicken, 7mm thickness for the pig and turkey, and 5mm thickness for the ram. Feet are all 50mm by 100mm long (two each on the pig and ram). Bizalloy 360 is specified as minimum hardness. The hole in the ram’s “horn” is optional.

Rimfire Rifle targets are one-fifth scale and requires the chicken to be between 6mm and 12.7mm thickness, and the pig, turkey and ram to be between 6mm and 6.5mm thickness. Bizalloy 360 is specified. Feet are 25mm by 50mm long (two on each pig and ram - the pig may have a single foot welded across both legs 25mm by 100mm long). The hole in the ram’s “horn” is optional.

Rimfire Handgun targets are three-eighth scale and requires the targets to be either 1/4" thickness or 3/16" thickness. Bizalloy 360 is specified. Feet are 38mm by 64mm long for the chicken, turkey, ram (two feet) and a 38mm by 102mm long foot for the pig (welded across both legs). The hole in the ram’s “horn” is optional.

Air Rifle targets are one-tenth scale and requires the chicken to be 5mm thickness (with 3mm thickness for the feet), and pig, turkey, ram to be 3mm thickness. Cold Rolled Steel is specified. Feet are 19mm by 25mm long for the chicken, pig, turkey, and 25mm by 50mm long for the ram. The hole in the ram’s “horn” is optional.

Additionally, target “stands” are required. These are a flat plate the same dimensions as the “feet” of the silhouettes, welded to a “spike” that is driven into the ground. The “spike” needs to be long enough to keep the target at least 152mm above the ground for full-size targets, and at least 50mm above the ground for Rimfire and Air-Rifle targets. Air Rifle stands specify the spike to be a “30d nail” which is 4.5” by 0.207” dia. I have not been able to find a specification for the spikes of all other target stands – I would think steel rod would be sufficient as long as it’s strong enough to withstand hammering into the ground, and stable enough to securely support the target, but without presenting too large a surface to incoming bullets. Otherwise a 300mm length of sharpened star picket with one edge facing forward would work.

A full set of target stands for full-size targets would include 10 of 76x101mm, 20 of 50x101mm, 10 of 76x200mm and 20 of 101x150mm.
A full set of target stands for half-scale scale targets would include 60 of 25x50mm.
A full set of target stands for three-eighth scale targets would include 40 of 38x64mm and 10 of 38x102mm.
A full set of target stands for one-fifth scale targets would include 60 of 25x50mm.
A full set of target stands for one-tenth scale targets would include 30 of 19x25mm, and 10 of 25x50mm.


I have not been able to find anything specifying the position that the feet are to be welded to the target. However, Groundhog sent me a drawing specifying that the chicken and turkey must have their "feet" aligned flush with the rear "facing" of the target's "leg". I struggled to find a photo of silhouettes with the feet aligned with the back of the birds' legs but eventually one popped up.

silhouettes.jpg (18.59 KiB) Viewed 12753 times

Before I send it through to be priced I thought I'd better get some feedback to confirm the details are correct.
Can anybody see any errors in the above?
For example, what size is the spike for the target stands?

[bladeracer]

And I found what seems a pretty good deal for somebody wanting some gongs.
AU$340 delivered for five round plates - 4", 6", 8", 10" and 12" - and a 20" torso silhouette in 3/8" AR500.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AR500-Steel-Target-3-8-inch-Tactical-Shooting-Metal-Target-Precision-Laser-C/253389061207

[bigfellascott]

might be worth a look
http://stsonline.com.au/store/index.php ... ry&path=59

[bladeracer]

might be worth a look
http://stsonline.com.au/store/index.php ... ry&path=59

They don't do any silhouettes.
I have emailed a guy in NSW that makes them to order though.

[sungazer]

Is that Sterk? If not he is another option.

[Strikey]

If you only want them for practicing one pair of each is enough, just make them into swinging targets on a stand. I know a bloke that makes silhouettes, can PM his details if you're keen Bladeracer

Edit: Air rifle targets will soon be required to 5mm thick as air rifles especially 22 & 25cal are causing too much damage to the 3mm targets.

[Sarco]

I am not sure, but there may be differences in the targets for the 2 governing bodies for Met Sihouette, being IMSSU (PA affiliated) and IHMSA (SSAA Affiliated)

I cannot attach the IMSSU Rules(*pdf file), however Google IMSSU Rules and IHMSA Rules will give results.

Both of these have target design parameters in them

[bladeracer]

Is that Sterk? If not he is another option.

Never heard of Sterk.
The guy I emailed is Kevin White of Aussie Target Tech.
http://www.aquamat.com/silhouettes.html

I've had a tough time finding anybody that does them, even talking to silhouette clubs. Invariably they just get some local place to cut them out for them, which is probably why nobody makes them commercially.
My dealer had some gongs cut by the guy I'm talking to locally.

[bladeracer]

If you only want them for practicing one pair of each is enough, just make them into swinging targets on a stand. I know a bloke that makes silhouettes, can PM his details if you're keen Bladeracer

Edit: Air rifle targets will soon be required to 5mm thick as air rifles especially 22 & 25cal are causing too much damage to the 3mm targets.

Yes, please Strikey!

Good point. There are a few options for target thickness. For home practicing I would think everybody would want the heaviest option so they know their loads will drop whatever they're faced with in a comp.

[bladeracer]

I am not sure, but there may be differences in the targets for the 2 governing bodies for Met Sihouette, being IMSSU (PA affiliated) and IHMSA (SSAA Affiliated)

I cannot attach the IMSSU Rules(*pdf file), however Google IMSSU Rules and IHMSA Rules will give results.

Both of these have target design parameters in them

Thanks Sarco. I got some data from the IHMSA as Handgun Silhouette refers us to them. Hadn't heard of IMSSU though. What classes of competition do PA run here?

[sungazer]

Give this guy a buzz. He does some good work and some at very good prises. The targets I got him were a no frill version of the STS if you like but much cheaper same quality steel from what I can tell. He also has a laser cutting machine some very detailed key chain guns in steel i could believe it.
https://www.facebook.com/SterkShooting/

[bladeracer]

Give this guy a buzz. He does some good work and some at very good prises. The targets I got him were a no frill version of the STS if you like but much cheaper same quality steel from what I can tell. He also has a laser cutting machine some very detailed key chain guns in steel i could believe it.
https://www.facebook.com/SterkShooting/

Turns out I have actually asked him before, on Ebay.

[bladeracer]

I got some numbers back.
A set of four full-size targets (one of each animal) in Bizalloy500 is $800+GST.
A set of eight half-scale targets (two of each animal) in 6mm mild steel is $230+GST (three-eighth scale is the same price).
A set of twenty one-fifth scale .22LR targets (five of each animal) in 6mm mild steel is $300+GST.
A set of forty one-tenth scale targets (ten of each animal) in 3mm mild steel is $405+GST.
Shipping would be ex-Brisbane.

Notes:
Thicknesses of the full-scale targets does not seem to be specified anywhere on the site so I can't confirm if they comply to competition spec (12.7mm and 10mm).
The half-scale Smallbore targets should not be 6mm mild steel. They should be 10mm (chicken), 7mm (pig/turkey), and 5mm (ram). And as we are shooting these with "Pistol Caliber" centrefire rifles at 40m, 50m, 75m and 100m they need to be Bizalloy360 at least. I suspect 6mm mild steel won't stand up to 240gn .44's at all well. I have explained this but I don't know if it will affect the pricing.
The tenth-scale chicken should be 5mm, not 3mm.

I'm awaiting prices to have them cut locally.

[sungazer]

Best to err on the side of longevity and get the 500 bisalloy. Its probably the type of steel target makers would have anyway.

[bladeracer]

Best to err on the side of longevity and get the 500 bisalloy. Its probably the type of steel target makers would have anyway.

Absolutely, but I haven't worked with these hardened steels so I don't know how the costs of material and effort compare to mild steels. Perhaps it's a significant cost saving, despite reduced longevity?

He is a target maker, and he specifies Bizalloy500 in all his "armour plate products".

[sungazer]

I guess all you can do is compare the sizes to other target that STS make and see where they are. You would need to allow a bit for the setup time of putting the shape into the computer and a certain amount for wastage as they are detailed shapes ect. Best of luck If you do get the Bis500 ones they will last a lifetime unless you shoot them at 100 with small high velocity projectiles. I tried that and they do make quite an impact then, well a little dimple.

[Strikey]

Bladeracer, PM sent.......finally

[Gamerancher]

Just shoot cast lead at moderate velocities and you can get away with 10mm mild for all of your swingers.

[bladeracer]

Just shoot cast lead at moderate velocities and you can get away with 10mm mild for all of your swingers.

I've been thinking of getting a sheet of 10mm mild just to see how it withstands 240gn JHP at 1700fps. It would certainly be useful if mild is sufficient. Actually, I have a piece of 410UB that has 8mm web and 13mm flanges I can use for some testing. A 180gn cast lead bullet in 8x57mm at 2500fps went straight through the web at 50m though

[bladeracer]

Got some revised numbers back just now.
Half-scale, two of each animal, in Bisalloy450, all 6mm except the chicken which is 10mm - $848+GST.
Compared to:
"A set of eight half-scale targets (two of each animal) in 6mm mild steel is $230+GST".
Allowing for the two chickens being 66% thicker, it seems the biggest difference between Bisalloy450 and mild steel is about three times the price.

[bladeracer]

Bladeracer, PM sent.......finally

Hasn't arrived as yet, Strikey.

[Gamerancher]

Yep, bisalloy is ridiculously expensive. My mild steel targets have copped a pizzling and are still going strong. They've been hit been with everything from .22LR to .45/90 Win. Cast bullets with velocities kept under 1700f/s.
I did try a cast load out of the .300 Whisper ( or .300 Blackout for the tacticool-mob ), it cratered the 200m target, not chronied, so velocity unknown. I was surprised with that one.

[Sarco]

I am not sure, but there may be differences in the targets for the 2 governing bodies for Met Sihouette, being IMSSU (PA affiliated) and IHMSA (SSAA Affiliated)

I cannot attach the IMSSU Rules(*pdf file), however Google IMSSU Rules and IHMSA Rules will give results.

Both of these have target design parameters in them

Thanks Sarco. I got some data from the IHMSA as Handgun Silhouette refers us to them. Hadn't heard of IMSSU though. What classes of competition do PA run here?

I must admit that I am not sure on PA (VAPA) Clubs which shoot MS here (Vic), but there are a number of interstate clubs shooting it and and also Aust representative teams travel to International Comps primarily in Europe. IHMSA primarily I believe into USA.
With the range of comps, they can cover virtually everything:
Rimfire:
100M, Standing, Production, Revolver, Any Sight, (I think there is also a 50M version as well)
Centrefire:
Field Pistol (100M) Standing Only, production, anysight
Big Bore (200M) Standing, Production, Revolver, Any Sight.

[Strikey]

Bladeracer, PM sent.......finally

Hasn't arrived as yet, Strikey.

Tried again, hoping you got it this time

[FuzzyM]

I bought a single set of SSAA spec rimfire silhouette targets from STS about a year ago.
They were doing them in batches.

When my Ruger Precision Rimfire eventually gets here I will hopefully shoot them more often.

[Corn]

If it’s any help, this is a 12mm mild steel target hit with a Hornady 55gr projectile from a 223. The Hornady ammo box suggests 3240fps.
Target hit at 200m.
Mild steel is cost effective, but useless for longevity. (Well it is for the way I’m using it!)
The reverse side of the target shows the target surface is slightly blistered from the projectile impact.

[Gamerancher]

Yeah, that's why I said for mild, cast bullet loadings only. This target, ( made from mild steel ), has been in use for about 10 years and has been hit a lot with everything from .22RF to 560gr .45 cal bullets with blackpowder loads, ( admittedly from 385m ). The slight cratering that can be seen is from 175gr cast bullets going about 1700 f/s out of a .30-30. The fresh splashes on it are from 250gr cast bullets out of a .38-55 doing 1500 f/s from 150m. Nil cratering.

.38-55 group.jpg (227.65 KiB) Viewed 12448 times

High velocity, jacketed bullets need bisalloy targets for any sort of longevity.

Pretty sure Bladeracer is using cast bullet loadings.

[Bent Arrow]

Can someone please tell me what the approximate size of the rimfire metallic silhouette targets is? I was having a good plinking session today and was getting a bit cocky so now I'm wondering roughly what size targets I need to be hitting at each distance. Thanks in advance.

[bladeracer]

Can someone please tell me what the approximate size of the rimfire metallic silhouette targets is? I was having a good plinking session today and was getting a bit cocky so now I'm wondering roughly what size targets I need to be hitting at each distance. Thanks in advance.

Very small
All shot offhand unsupported.

RMS Chicken.jpg (483.98 KiB) Viewed 12393 times

RMS Pig.jpg (546.23 KiB) Viewed 12393 times

RMS Turkey.jpg (594.11 KiB) Viewed 12393 times

RMS Ram.jpg (555.15 KiB) Viewed 12393 times

The 40m chicken is 65mm from nose to tail and 60mm tall, the "mass" is an oval 45mm wide by 27mm tall - roughly one-third of a .22LR box stood on end.

RMS Chicken b.jpg (611.28 KiB) Viewed 12387 times

The 60m pig is 110mm from nose to tail and 76mm tall, the mass being an oval 95mm wide by 50mm tall - slightly bigger than a .22LR box laid on its side.

RMS Pig b.jpg (623.4 KiB) Viewed 12387 times

The 77m turkey is 100mm wide and 120mm tall, the mass being an oval 70mm wide by 50mm tall, but laying about 40-degrees from horizontal. A .22LR box on its side is about right.

RMS Turkey b.jpg (707.06 KiB) Viewed 12387 times

The 100m ram is 160mm nose to tail and 140mm tall, the mass being an oval 120mm wide by 60mm tall.

RMS Ram b.jpg (748.34 KiB) Viewed 12387 times

[bladeracer]

Pretty sure Bladeracer is using cast bullet loadings.

I'm primarily using cast bullets against steel, but my half-scale silhouettes are BZ450 and they laugh at the 240gn JHP's.
I didn't see any rules disallowing jacketed bullets in Lever Action Silhouette - are we allowed to use jackets or do they have to be cast? Can they be copper plated Berry's?