Covidsafe App you really want it

[AussieCapitalist]

Why would I use google maps and let some machine tell me where to drive? There is a little book you can buy that has street maps inside of it. I am sure you all have seen them before.

[trekin]

The thought just accured to me, after seeing a news report on people with the anti bodies selling their blood on the dark web, that the protential of this, and apps like it, to herald a new type of crime. Stay tuned for reports of vampiristic type crimes to become the norm.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Yep... but does your book tell you if there are any road closures from road works or other reasons. Any congestion up ahead and alternative routes.

I used to use melways and unless you bought a new book every year louts of roads were not marked.

[AussieCapitalist]

That is true, but I am a simple man who is not susceptible to change.

[Stix]

Why would I use google maps and let some machine tell me where to drive? There is a little book you can buy that has street maps inside of it. I am sure you all have seen them before.

Ill have to borrow your little book...cos mine doesnt show me where i am placed on a rural property after an adrenalin filled, internal compass wiping half hour fox chase...
Getting lost on a farm used to be an adventure...now days that adventure at 2am without satelite navigation via google maps is just waste of time, fuel & a PITA...

[TassieTiger]

Take some stale bread with you stix? - geez mate...I have to think of everything.

[Stix]

Are you nuts...!!!

Thats how the Mallee Vampire Lizards eventually find you...they gobble up bread trails & catch you on your third circle of the paddock...!!

[Stix]

So the release of the APP started with a very passive & almost apathetic suggestion of, its not compulsory download it if you like...

Now with Govt appearing surprised at the uptake, now its more of a--the sooner you download it the sooner we'll let you leave the house...

Im not liking this seemingly sudden change in delivery of the Govts belief system behind the App...

The way i see it is, once the infection rate is lowered to next to, or nothing & lock down restrictions are lifted or eased, an App telling the Govt where you've been wont change a thing ...you still have to be diagnosed, the same amount of people will still have been in contact with you, the same traceability is still available--kind of like a food recall---i mean, they seem to have no problem sending targeted spam type unsolicited messages to us via text & pre-recorded voice messages without an APP come election time...

If an infected person goes to their local supermarket with the desired percentage of the population having downloaded the APP & allowing their bluetooth to be open & visible to each other, the same amount of people will be infected, & there will still be "rogue" infected people wandering society...

Im not usually one to make a fancy looking multi layered hat from Ali Foil, but I just cant for the life of me help but believe there is more to this APP than the Govt is letting on...this feeling is somewhat bolstered by the shenanigans surrounding firearms that we've seen in several states...

For me...having absolute trust the Govt is completely transparent would be like letting a known & willingly admitting child molesting sexual predator babysit your kids while you go for a weekend away...

I dunno...what do you folk who downloaded the APP have to say to ease my mind...?...

[Sergeant Hartman]

I haven't downloaded it...i need to remember to keep my Bluetooth off.

[Farmerpete]

I haven't downloaded it...i need to remember to keep my Bluetooth off.

My Bluetooth magically turned itself on today I wonder how that happened???

[Sergeant Hartman]

It can't magically turn on mate. Maybe blame a kid.

Google and apple know about us so much that they don't really need to do the Bluetooth trick as you said.

There have been verified reports and even a fine when our phone was recording all our conversations waiting for the words hello Siri.

Both companies have ample location data, don't even need gps turned on. They get your location via wifi and mobile cell triangulation.

Everytime we visit a website search for something, watch a video or song. That's recorded.

This is so they can understand what we like and give us targeted ads.

What i don't like is a nincompoop software developer hired by bureaucrats who wrote a program and the d data stored by it in unsecure locations, and then this data is not deleted and used by the government... or worse sold off to private companies

[gazza]

Make sure your drug dealer doesn't install it.

[Raband]

I've got 4 kids, a grandaughter and two elderly parents that I care for/about.daily.

To me the app is a no-brainer if it can help protect them even indirectly.

Not everything is some nefarious scheme by men in black to invade our privacy, steal our data and track us.

If, as a worst case scenario, my tracking data falls into wrong hands (very unlikely and nothing that couldn't be gotten through other means) so what?

Honestly, they'd be welcome to it during this crisis if it'd help protect my loved ones.
Ohhh, I went to xxxxxxxx shop today, stopped at yyyyyyyy servo. Whoop-de-farking-do.

If I was heading somewhere/doing something I was concerned about then the phone shouldn't be with me anyway if !I wss concerned about 3rd party surveilence (it won't be the covid app that trips me up)

[TassieTiger]

But HOW is it really, truly going to help? That’s the real issue for me - if any covid infected ppl don’t take their phone into Bunnings (Or they don’t have app, or use a flip phone or turn off blue tooth or any other possibilities x 100) and you do, And you are reliant on the app to tell you your safe, you could get infected and be none the wiser and take it home to everyone...and the icing is you’ve given your data away as well.
if your in Bunnings and the app says you’ve been in close proximity to someone who was positive - now you don’t have a clue what they have touched in that store or what products are contaminated ? So do you leave ? Do you rush out and get tested? There’s a squillion possibles And the govt knows this - which brings into ? The real reason for the app.
To me it just does not make any sense...

[trekin]

I've got 4 kids, a grandaughter and two elderly parents that I care for/about.daily.

To me the app is a no-brainer if it can help protect them even indirectly.

Not everything is some nefarious scheme by men in black to invade our privacy, steal our data and track us.

If, as a worst case scenario, my tracking data falls into wrong hands (very unlikely and nothing that couldn't be gotten through other means) so what?

Honestly, they'd be welcome to it during this crisis if it'd help protect my loved ones.
Ohhh, I went to xxxxxxxx shop today, stopped at yyyyyyyy servo. Whoop-de-farking-do.

If I was heading somewhere/doing something I was concerned about then the phone shouldn't be with me anyway if !I wss concerned about 3rd party surveilence (it won't be the covid app that trips me up)

Until you get an offical looking text message, as I did yesterday, stating the APP had tracked you outside of the 20 km zone around your address,and that you are now required to pay the fine ($1300) to this bank account. Obversely a scam, as I don't have the APP, but if some people are gulliable enough to download it, then some of those people will also be gulliable enough to pay up.

[Raband]

But HOW is it really, truly going to help? That’s the real issue for me .

By helping track and trace possible infection vectors and get ahead of a fresh outbreak/cluster.

Trying to work back where an infected person had been the prior 2 weeks and who they may have come into contact with off only their memory is next to impossible.

It's not real time, not going to warn me to stay away from Bunnings etc - it will just give the docs and scientists a fairly decent tool to help them in their fight.

That and the increase in free public testing (already started where I am) could well be the thing that saves one or many of those I care about.

Lets say I undertook testing on Weds at the local supermarket carpark (one of the local stations for swabs) and turn out to be infected - that allows (via the app) any number of people to be warned that they may indeed be at risk from me and to take appropriate measures to avoid infecting others.

TassieTiger doesn't have the app, doesn't get any warning that he was in contact with me and goes his merry way for the next fortnight infecting family, friends, coworkers, strangers, shopkeepers, customers etc, who each go about their business infecting others.

Going to become even more critical once lockdowns are eased and movements increase.

Personally, I'd hate to have to live with myself if someone got infected or even worse due to a visit from me if I was infected without my knoweledge of having come into contact with some random stranger - even more so if I could have been warned of that contact a week ealier if only I'd been using the app.

For me it's an easy choice/download because I'm not making it about ME, not about MY DATA, MY PRIVACY etc - for me it's about doing my best to look out for others

edit: Can tell you one thing - if someone infects one of my kids, grandkids or parents because they were too pig headed to download a simple app that would have given them prior warning not to go visiting - any tinfoil fears or personal stances on data protection, big brother etc will fade into insignificance compared to what they need to fear from me

[marksman]

if you are not going anywhere, social distance, sanitize all your packaging before it enters the home, no visitors ect... why would you need such an app, stupid

all the app does is help with government contact tracing to try save the government time, it does nothing for you or your family's health if you are going to get it you have got it and already passed it on before you are notified eg... up to 14 days before you show symptoms
how can not downloading the app get anyone infected, does the app tell you about asymptomatic persons around you?

Raband you need to think about the threats you are making,
"any tinfoil fears or personal stances on data protection, big brother etc will fade into insignificance compared to what they need to fear from me"
IMHO you are aggressive and should think about weather you should hold a firearm licence
if you are that worried really you should be hoping people dont download the app so the government keep the restrictions on for longer
it would also be smarter for the government to allow us to know where the cases come from to avoid these areas

[Raband]

it does nothing for you or your family's health if you are going to get it you have got it and already passed it on before you are notified eg... up to 14 days before you show symptoms

8 workers found infected at a meat processing factory today

Imagine if the person who infected the initial worker had been using the app, as had the worker and they were able to jump in and head off that worker going to work til tested. Able to get the worker teasted prior to having to wait 2 weeks or so til they show symptoms (if they even show)

Imagine if this was after lockdown and each of the 8 workers went to different pubs, restaurants, parties, houses etc.

Yep - it will do nothing for me or my families health if I've already got it and infected them, but it could definitely help others I came into contact with before I was diagnosed find out they may be a risk to their families health before they pass it on til such stage as they are diagnosed.

People will be able to head back out into society soon as lockdowns are lifted - I, for one, would rather find out I'd been in contact with a carrier via the app as soon as I can rather than a fortnight later when I start coughing and after I'd visited friends and family.

Lol at aggressive - if someone infects a loved one when it could have been easily avoided yep - I'll glare at them menacingly

[marksman]

a few questions come to mind Raband

1) if you have contact with someone who is infected how long before you get notified?

2) why are the infected out and about? obviously they have been tested to know they have been infected, if they dont know they may be asymptomatic

3) how much contact do you need to be infected?

from the coronavirus contact app FAQ

"Who is a “close contact” for notification purposes?
• State and Territory public health officials will have the contact information for other users
who have been within approximately 1.5 metres of the infected user for 15 minutes or
more."
https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default ... e-faqs.pdf

so if there is anyone who could infect someone you know dont allow them to have contact, eg... my daughter works in an aged care facility and does placement as a paramedic so we have not seen her for 2 months, l have not seen my mother or mother in law for the same, we have plenty of contact by phone and skype and l leave things at the front door for my mother who leaves it there for 3 days before bringing it in

just because the lockdown eases does not mean the vulnerable will be any safer because of an app, they need to keep it going

[AussieCapitalist]

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery and my family does too. The most important thing in life is freedom. Everything revolves around freedom and we should not sacrifice it. The death rate is like nothing, its less than 0.5%. So it is being blown out of proportion that the world is ending. The economy crashing as a result of the lockdowns will kill more people than the virus will. The UN is even saying millions will die due to lack of food.

So download the app if you wish. Everybody has personal freedom to make their own path but I can never.

[AussieCapitalist]

Very tyrannical of you Raband to threaten people who do not wish to download the app. You don't seem like a fit and proper person. However you would make a good soviet, threatening others who do not comply.

[trekin]

8 workers found infected at a meat processing factory today

Imagine if the person who infected the initial worker had been using the app, as had the worker and they were able to jump in and head off that worker going to work til tested. Able to get the worker teasted prior to having to wait 2 weeks or so til they show symptoms (if they even show)

Imagine if this was after lockdown and each of the 8 workers went to different pubs, restaurants, parties, houses etc.

Yep - it will do nothing for me or my families health if I've already got it and infected them, but it could definitely help others I came into contact with before I was diagnosed find out they may be a risk to their families health before they pass it on til such stage as they are diagnosed.

People will be able to head back out into society soon as lockdowns are lifted - I, for one, would rather find out I'd been in contact with a carrier via the app as soon as I can rather than a fortnight later when I start coughing and after I'd visited friends and family.

Lol at aggressive - if someone infects a loved one when it could have been easily avoided yep - I'll glare at them menacingly

I would be very weary of any news story that reports lke this:
"A COVID-19 cluster has emerged at a Victorian meat processing facility after eight employees tested positive for the potentially deadly disease.

Three staff are among the seven new cases of coronavirus recorded overnight, taking the total number of infections in Victoria to 1,371."

"The Melbourne business has been closed for cleaning as all staff members undergo testing and contact tracing is conducted.

There are no current concerns for food safety, Mikakos said.

She said it was not department policy to provide the name of the facility as they did not believe there was a public health risk."
And yet the department has no qualms naming age care facilities, health care facilities or anywhere else 'real' outbreaks occur.

[AussieCapitalist]

I would be very weary of any news story that reports lke this:
"A COVID-19 cluster has emerged at a Victorian meat processing facility after eight employees tested positive for the potentially deadly disease.

Three staff are among the seven new cases of coronavirus recorded overnight, taking the total number of infections in Victoria to 1,371."

"The Melbourne business has been closed for cleaning as all staff members undergo testing and contact tracing is conducted.

There are no current concerns for food safety, Mikakos said.

She said it was not department policy to provide the name of the facility as they did not believe there was a public health risk."
And yet the department has no qualms naming age care facilities, health care facilities or anywhere else 'real' outbreaks occur.

Dan Andrews needs there to be cases so he can sell his tough lockdowns to the public. Other places want to open up whilst he wants more lockdowns.

[Farmerpete]

I can understand the hesitancy to name the buisness as they may experience people not going there due to the virus that being said if tracing is so hard we need an app to track who we talk to wouldn't they want the help of people calling up and saying I was at the place where there was a cluster??
or is this all about handing out fines because our phones were too close to recoup the handouts??

[Sergeant Hartman]

That is a very good example of two things.

Firstly the facility should be public information, so people who have been there or dealt with the workers at the factory know.

But so what does the covid app change.

It just helps the govt trace all the people the workers spent time with... something mostly they can recall. Won't help to catch it any earlier.

The app can't really work pout distance so a worker that works in the room next door might be picked up and even if the govt get their 40% takeup. Its still very likely that some workers that are infected don't have the app.

I don't get how freaky it will make much of a difference...all i see is it makes some burocrat job easier

[Farmerpete]

The app can measure distance from other phones through the signal strength. Different phones have different signal strength that's why its important they track what type of phone we use

[AussieCapitalist]

Funny how the media keeps using the word "linked". I have a Microsoft computer so I am linked to bill gates. Being linked to the facility could literally be delivery drivers or admin staff or the mother of the bloke that fills up the vending machine etc. I hope this lack of details is not a deliberate ruse in order to create fear. The timing could not be better for Dan Andrews as he wants to still keep the lockdown.

[marksman]

apparently the locations of infected cases are available in NSW by suburb but not VIC where you get the region which is a much bigger area

this app would be good for fining people out of there area like Trekkin said and for handing out fines for those who should be isolating because they have been shown to be infected, makes the covid officers job easier

does anyone actually know how long it takes for the government agency to ring you and respond to your being within 1.5m for longer than 15 minutes

[TassieTiger]

By helping track and trace possible infection vectors and get ahead of a fresh outbreak/cluster.

Trying to work back where an infected person had been the prior 2 weeks and who they may have come into contact with off only their memory is next to impossible.

It's not real time, not going to warn me to stay away from Bunnings etc - it will just give the docs and scientists a fairly decent tool to help them in their fight.

That and the increase in free public testing (already started where I am) could well be the thing that saves one or many of those I care about.

Lets say I undertook testing on Weds at the local supermarket carpark (one of the local stations for swabs) and turn out to be infected - that allows (via the app) any number of people to be warned that they may indeed be at risk from me and to take appropriate measures to avoid infecting others.

TassieTiger doesn't have the app, doesn't get any warning that he was in contact with me and goes his merry way for the next fortnight infecting family, friends, coworkers, strangers, shopkeepers, customers etc, who each go about their business infecting others.

Going to become even more critical once lockdowns are eased and movements increase.

Personally, I'd hate to have to live with myself if someone got infected or even worse due to a visit from me if I was infected without my knoweledge of having come into contact with some random stranger - even more so if I could have been warned of that contact a week ealier if only I'd been using the app.

For me it's an easy choice/download because I'm not making it about ME, not about MY DATA, MY PRIVACY etc - for me it's about doing my best to look out for others

edit: Can tell you one thing - if someone infects one of my kids, grandkids or parents because they were too pig headed to download a simple app that would have given them prior warning not to go visiting - any tinfoil fears or personal stances on data protection, big brother etc will fade into insignificance compared to what they need to fear from me

So, you have the app installed but get infected without knowing it (hundreds of ways this can happen - someone coughs on a product you pick up, someone doesn’t have their phone on them or turned on, etc etc) - But the issue now is - you had the app, it didn’t alarm, so you feel safe. It your know spreading it everywhere...how does that help your family?

It’s like speed signs for idiots..”.I crashed in the snow doing a 100kmh in a 100 zone...but - I was not breaking the law so I had to be safe“. Yep. Sheep herd mentality - screws up basic common sense. Enjoy your app mate.
I’ll assume you are at war in your head with the Chinese lol.

[Raband]

.

So, you have the app installed but get infected without knowing it (hundreds of ways this can happen - someone coughs on a product you pick up, someone doesn’t have their phone on them or turned on, etc etc) - But the issue now is - you had the app, it didn’t alarm, so you feel safe. It your know spreading it everywhere...how does that help your family?

No

Assuming I get the virus and have the app anyone I've been in contact with in the last however long will get a warning that they run a risk.

If I spent time behind you in a line a few days ago and then diagnose with the virus tomorrow, you'll get warned that you maybe at risk, without waiting til you get a symptom. You can then get checked.

Doesn't help me or mine at all, but could help you and yours - especially if you get warned before you head to visit family or friends etc.

That's if you had the app - if not then no warning, no idea you maybe contagious and away you go on your merry way for the next fortnight until you develop a cough.....

Lockdown will be easing in a short time and visits will become a thing - I'd sure like to know at the earliest chance if I pose a greater risk to those I'm planning on visiting.

The app is not going to make me feel safer or take less precautions out in the public.