What will you replace your button or lever release shotgun w

[womble]

As per the title. Or your straight pull.
I have two shotgun pta’s in already. To beat the rush. For an over under and a single barrel.

Should you have to surrender yours. As likely in most if not all states.
What are you considering to replace it with ?

[alexjones]

I have a triple barrel akkar 3. Faster than a semi auto because no action to cycle.

[womble]

I have a side by side. Faster than an akkar 3 because two triggers can be fired at the same time.

[bigrich]

I have a side by side. Faster than an akkar 3 because two triggers can be fired at the same time.

i tried under/over and sidey's just work better for me . best one i had was a old belgian made "leige" . i don't shoot little orange flying saucers anymore and there's not much use in qld for shottys except maybe for close and personal work on pigs in heavy scrub . which i avoid those situations as the barstards can be dangerous that close. i've always been curious about combination guns and drillings . have to be a handy thing in some circumstances as long as you don't need quick follow up shots . gone a bit off topic but oh well....JMHO

[womble]

Is also best to avoid firing two triggers at the same time

[Finniss]

If my understanding is correct
Lever actions remain Cat B???
Lever release to C.

If so, 1887 or A110. Would prefer a triple barrel for hunting but pricey and too many barrels to clean

[Wapiti]

Shotguns are great for eastern brown snakes, open choke is best, 7.5-9 shot, stand back a ways to open up the pattern.
It pays to put up a big bit of card at a few metres and check where the pattern is and how big.
Of course, the big E.B. that was in the yard yesterday, striking at the dogs, was left alone to maybe get one of us another time, because snakes are protected.

How about going back to the levers?
They are just as quick in a practical sense in the bush, nothing in it.
I have an IAC 20" lever, holds 5 in the tube + 2 in the "2-shot extra load feature", so 7 all up, and a great half-cock hammer so it's safe with a shell in the chamber.
I also have another 1887 copy, a case-hardened Chiappa 24" with a beaustiful figured walnut stock and choke set, for the farm clay shoot get-togethers we have out here.
After owning these solid steel and walnut lever shotties though, the Adler pot metal ones are not on the list... I think these are Cat B?
They're not tactical-looking enough for many people, but that's not a consideration for usefulness.

[mchughcb]

Been using a triple for years. If you can fire more than 3 shots at a fox with lever release it's out of range.

[bladeracer]

As per the title. Or your straight pull.
I have two shotgun pta’s in already. To beat the rush. For an over under and a single barrel.

Should you have to surrender yours. As likely in most if not all states.
What are you considering to replace it with ?

I didn't buy the T1000 because I had any interest in a straight-pull gun. My dealer was closing his shop down and had three brand-new longarms that he had ordered in for customers long before that they had never come to collect, or pay for. So he made me a silly offer just to get rid of them and I couldn't say no. He sold me a lot of very useful stuff at the time at stupid prices. So, I wound up with the T1000, and I quite like it, but I've never needed to use it it at the speed a straight-pull potentially offers, so I can't see that I would bother replacing it at all. I have the Rossi Coachgun and the Stoeger Condor 30" under-over, which are both more fun to shoot than the T1000 anyway. The straight-pull designs have stupid manuals of arms that make them less than enjoyable I find. I was used to my old Bentley 20" 8-shot pump which simply worked, with no complicated machinations. If the government wishes to make me an offer for the T1000 I think I'd be happy enough to part with it.

My mate will be less happy to give up his Browning Trombone .22 though.

[bladeracer]

I have a side by side. Faster than an akkar 3 because two triggers can be fired at the same time.

I managed to hit a clay at about 40m doing that with the Coachgun

[bladeracer]

If my understanding is correct
Lever actions remain Cat B???
Lever release to C.

If so, 1887 or A110. Would prefer a triple barrel for hunting but pricey and too many barrels to clean

Seeing lots of '87's in Cowboy puts me right off the idea of owning one, what a painful design

[bladeracer]

Is also best to avoid firing two triggers at the same time

A trick in Cowboy, because we're often shooting at adjacent targets, is to "swipe" both triggers with one finger as you swing the gun. But most doubles have the triggers set up to avoid this accidentally happening. If you're left-handed it works, but for right-handers you can swap the triggers over to allow it. One of the Cowboys had just had his gun so modified when he gave it to Rose to shoot. She of course managed to fire both at the same time

[Wapiti]

If my understanding is correct
Lever actions remain Cat B???
Lever release to C.

If so, 1887 or A110. Would prefer a triple barrel for hunting but pricey and too many barrels to clean

Seeing lots of '87's in Cowboy puts me right off the idea of owning one, what a painful design

Why do you say that, BR?
They are a lever just like any old 92 or 94, only difference is the lever travel is a little longer.

Sure, they have to be loaded in the tube with the action open, but that's just a "manual of arms" thing, which is simple learning.
If I am using a lever shotty instead of our pumps for a task the 1887 design is incredibly simple to operate and is intuitive.

I can't talk from any competition viewpoint though, but for field use the ability to have 7 shots, with one in the chamber on halfcock is a very fast, safe and quiet way to get lead moving downrange.

We had an aggressive brown snake in the yard yesterday, and the shotgun I reached for was the Chinaman 1887, and not because I have a bias either. Very quick.

[womble]

I have a side by side. Faster than an akkar 3 because two triggers can be fired at the same time.

I managed to hit a clay at about 40m doing that with the Coachgun

I had an old boito 410 side by side. 26 inch barrel. So both triggers at once was manageable.
So I really had a choice of using it as a 410 or a 12 gauge.

[womble]

I’m not pushing an Akkar 3 around in a wheelbarrow.
And I’m not mounting one on a vehicle.

[deye243]

I have a triple barrel akkar 3. Faster than a semi auto because no action to cycle.

No not really faster because on a semi-autos which I had a lot of experience with the time you get back on site from recoil action is already finished same as the semi auto center fires that I had

[womble]

Also not really because semi auto will cycle quicker than you can pull the trigger twice.

[mchughcb]

Also not really because semi auto will cycle quicker than you can pull the trigger twice.

Assuming you can't get a cat c for hu ting the point is mute.

The semi auto shotguns I've used for hunting like the A5 had poop triggers and handled poop.

My triple weigs 3.45kg with a 26" barrel an weighs less than my 30" silver pigeon.

[bladeracer]

Why do you say that, BR?
They are a lever just like any old 92 or 94, only difference is the lever travel is a little longer.

Sure, they have to be loaded in the tube with the action open, but that's just a "manual of arms" thing, which is simple learning.
If I am using a lever shotty instead of our pumps for a task the 1887 design is incredibly simple to operate and is intuitive.

I can't talk from any competition viewpoint though, but for field use the ability to have 7 shots, with one in the chamber on halfcock is a very fast, safe and quiet way to get lead moving downrange.

We had an aggressive brown snake in the yard yesterday, and the shotgun I reached for was the Chinaman 1887, and not because I have a bias either. Very quick.

Fiddly to load and what I've seen does not make me think that they're reliable, I definitely wouldn't want to rely on one against a pack of pigs or dogs. I would think if I had to get a gun out of the safe quick, and load it quick, I'd be grabbing the coachgun.

[womble]

It’s cool that the western action scene slicks up their guns, but I don’t know much about it.

Can you get internal hammer shotguns to just drop open as easily as hammer guns ?

And if so, is there a downside to that ?
I don’t really want a hair trigger on a side by side. Or is that preferable.

Do they delete the tang safety ?
Because it looks like the boito/stoeger shotguns are the popular choice.

[perentie]

It’s cool that the western action scene slicks up their guns, but I don’t know much about it.

Can you get internal hammer shotguns to just drop open as easily as hammer guns ?

And if so, is there a downside to that ?
I don’t really want a hair trigger on a side by side. Or is that preferable.

Do they delete the tang safety ?
Because it looks like the boito/stoeger shotguns are the popular choice.

Back in the day when I shot WA, all shotguns had to be exposed hammer SxS

[Wapiti]

Why do you say that, BR?
They are a lever just like any old 92 or 94, only difference is the lever travel is a little longer.

Sure, they have to be loaded in the tube with the action open, but that's just a "manual of arms" thing, which is simple learning.
If I am using a lever shotty instead of our pumps for a task the 1887 design is incredibly simple to operate and is intuitive.

I can't talk from any competition viewpoint though, but for field use the ability to have 7 shots, with one in the chamber on halfcock is a very fast, safe and quiet way to get lead moving downrange.

We had an aggressive brown snake in the yard yesterday, and the shotgun I reached for was the Chinaman 1887, and not because I have a bias either. Very quick.

Fiddly to load and what I've seen does not make me think that they're reliable, I definitely wouldn't want to rely on one against a pack of pigs or dogs. I would think if I had to get a gun out of the safe quick, and load it quick, I'd be grabbing the coachgun.

All I can ask now then after that, is, have you used one as your only firearm in the bush?
Against dogs or pigs?

Well I have, and haven't experienced one issue with mine.
And the only fiddly thing is that you have to open the action to load the tube mag.
There are no reliability issues except the skill of the user, at least with mine. And it's serial no. 0000001, first one ever made and kept especially by Nioa for a Mr. Tony Cleaver's collection so maybe mine had some extra care?
And has been said here, after 3 shots or more, game has gone and the party is over, except in a worst sense scenario, when this gun has 4 shells left in it.

I don't shoot, or ever have done, Western Action. But also having Winchester lever rifles myself, the 1887 is just as quick, and "fiddly" to load as they are in the bush, but never have I run out of ammo before the excitement was over except from my own failings.

But hey, either than the awful, heavy 3-shot Akkar, which I personally would never own what are you all going to do. Start looking for doubles I guess. I'm just suggesting a firearm that works for 7 shots in a string, in cat B.
But for those reading this looking for a great alternative, I'm a bloke that uses one and has found it worth owning even with forend-release and pump action options in the safe.

[bladeracer]

It’s cool that the western action scene slicks up their guns, but I don’t know much about it.

Can you get internal hammer shotguns to just drop open as easily as hammer guns ?

And if so, is there a downside to that ?
I don’t really want a hair trigger on a side by side. Or is that preferable.

Do they delete the tang safety ?
Because it looks like the boito/stoeger shotguns are the popular choice.

Yep, the fast people use hammerless guns. I haven't come across any with really light triggers yet, I don't think the trigger matters at all when you are shooting a 400mm-square plate at three meters or so

I don't use safeties on longs so I've never noticed if any of them have safeties or not. Really don't need a safety on a break-action gun, close it as you bring it your shoulder and fire when you have the sight picture. The fast guys break the gun, reload, and close it, all while it's still shouldered. The Rossi Coachgun has blocked hammers, if the trigger is not back the hammer can't push the firing pin against the primer, so you can carry safely with the hammers down and cock them as you shoulder it. I can't bring myself to carry it closed though so I carry it broken with the hammers cocked.

[bladeracer]

Nope, no dogs around my area and I've never lived in pig areas. I'm not talking about dropping a lot of pigs that are running away, I'm talking about defensively dropping pigs or dogs that are actively attacking you. But running guns fast in competition is a great proving ground for reliability before taking them out into a dangerous situation. We can use the '87 in standard Cowboy matches, but it starts unloaded, and we can only load two rounds at a time, so it's significantly slower than a coachgun. Getting those two rounds into the gun to start with is slow, though the guys that practice a lot can manage it very well, some of the time. Then, running that long lever throw from the shoulder is slow. The '87 is primarily used for Wild Bunch (alongside the 1911 .45), where the tube (not the chamber) can be fully-loaded at the start of the stage, but we generally include enough targets to require a reload, so the fast double shooters can still beat the average 5-shot '87 shooters. I certainly wouldn't want to be loading a double-gun in the midst of a pack of dogs or pigs though. A well-maintained lever-action rifle in .44Mag or .45 Colt would be better, for its speed and capacity. And you can top it up while a round is chambered. To top up the '87 you have to extract the chambered round first, to access the mag. But a bolt-action rifle would be my preference for all-round reliable cycling under duress. I don't consider shotguns to offer any advantage over the solid punch of a fat rifle bullet.

I have also seen an '87 fire while the lever was being closed, which was scary, but no damage was done. The firing pin was sticking out of the bolt face but whether it was due to a component breakage or debris I never heard. That doesn't specifically put me off the '87, but doing so much pistol shooting last year I saw quite a number of accidental and negligent pistol discharges at ranges, including two benches being shot; one pistol fired when the slide was dropped, the other was during a reload due to poor trigger-finger discipline. I saw two other AD's from pistols when the slide was dropped so I stress to everybody to point your pistol downrange while dropping the slide. Other ND's occurred during loading and unloading semi-auto pistols, and while chambering single-shot pistols with ludicrously-light triggers. And twice I was next to a .22 pistol that did it's own double-taps due to a mechanical fault. And in Cowboy, the fastest shooters hold the trigger and fan the hammer with their weak hand thumb. They tend to draw with their finger already hauling the trigger back, so when they fumble the hammer during the draw the first shot can be pretty wild, but as long as it doesn't hit the ground less than three-metres downrange it's just a miss. I haven't seen one fired in the holster yet but I guess it's just a matter of time. Tucotherat on Youtube had a mate do just that while they were practicing with blanks. I can't find the video now so he may have removed it.

All I can ask now then after that, is, have you used one as your only firearm in the bush?
Against dogs or pigs?

Well I have, and haven't experienced one issue with mine.
And the only fiddly thing is that you have to open the action to load the tube mag.
There are no reliability issues except the skill of the user, at least with mine. And it's serial no. 0000001, first one ever made and kept especially by Nioa for a Mr. Tony Cleaver's collection so maybe mine had some extra care?
And has been said here, after 3 shots or more, game has gone and the party is over, except in a worst sense scenario, when this gun has 4 shells left in it.

I don't shoot, or ever have done, Western Action. But also having Winchester lever rifles myself, the 1887 is just as quick, and "fiddly" to load as they are in the bush, but never have I run out of ammo before the excitement was over except from my own failings.

But hey, either than the awful, heavy 3-shot Akkar, which I personally would never own what are you all going to do. Start looking for doubles I guess. I'm just suggesting a firearm that works for 7 shots in a string, in cat B.
But for those reading this looking for a great alternative, I'm a bloke that uses one and has found it worth owning even with forend-release and pump action options in the safe.

[Wapiti]

Well mate, I've never had any dramas with both the IAC or my Chiappa, so I just wanted to clear the air on all the stuff I read out there from the "people who've seen..." all of this.
And I'm certainly not trying to discount anything anyone else is saying either, particularly you mate.

No firearm is ever 100% idiot-proof either, also no disrespect intended.
Any person who's excited in a match or not in control can trip a trigger or slip their thumb off a hammer. Maybe those people should concentrate on the style of firearm in their hands when they are under self-imposed stress. There are some procedures different and unique to these guns to master. If you do, it's second nature like learning to use any equipment.

I hardly ever use shotguns, because they are very limited in useability anyway and are certainly a niche need, as others have said here.
But even with my limited skill with shot guns, and the supposed mechanical issues with a design from 1887 (which my style of use has never found yet), I've caned my farmer peers in our clay events with their O/U Berettas and Mirokus, using the 2-shot fast feature on the two stands they set up. Not from skill, but just familiarity with the gun.
Funniest bit is, when I drag the Italian 1887 out of the bag with it's colour-case hardened steel buttplate and action, everyone laughs and says, "put that outdated club away". They aren't laughing at the end of the session though.

By the looks of what's going to happen in NSW, maybe elsewhere in other Labor states, I only can add my own personal experiences with an option for those who might still want a repeating shotgun in a category you blokes can still enjoy. That's all.
I've never had an issue with both of mine, so I reckon it's all bias and user error. Has to be, because I'm only a user, not an expert.
Good luck with picking your alternatives.

[womble]

[womble]

If lever is the way you will go but you want a cheap bush basher to replace your cheap pos straight pull, then I’d be looking for any uzkons before they get snapped up.

Interistingally these are already up a 100 buck price hike :

https://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/107293/uzkon_model_887_21_lever_action_12g.html

https://usedguns.com.au/products/19741822?_pos=1&_sid=32684158d&_ss=r&_fid=4b03dba2f

And who knows what Nioa will bring in next. Maybe a 12 gauge revolver that burns big holes in your forearm.

[womble]

What’s the goss on the IAC 1887 ?

Because this is one cool looking shotgun.
https://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/156922/iac_1887_2nd_hand_12g_t5186.html

[bladeracer]

Absolutely, as with anything, if you put the time in to get accustomed to it you can work well with any contraption. The fast guys shooting Wild Bunch with the '87 have few issues, they've done thousands of rounds of load, fire, reload, fire, reload, fire, over and over again. It's the rest of us that struggle

All firearms can catch even the most-experienced user out sometimes.

I thought the new laws were moving lever-action shotguns to CatC as well now?

Well mate, I've never had any dramas with both the IAC or my Chiappa, so I just wanted to clear the air on all the stuff I read out there from the "people who've seen..." all of this.
And I'm certainly not trying to discount anything anyone else is saying either, particularly you mate.

No firearm is ever 100% idiot-proof either, also no disrespect intended.
Any person who's excited in a match or not in control can trip a trigger or slip their thumb off a hammer. Maybe those people should concentrate on the style of firearm in their hands when they are under self-imposed stress. There are some procedures different and unique to these guns to master. If you do, it's second nature like learning to use any equipment.

I hardly ever use shotguns, because they are very limited in useability anyway and are certainly a niche need, as others have said here.
But even with my limited skill with shot guns, and the supposed mechanical issues with a design from 1887 (which my style of use has never found yet), I've caned my farmer peers in our clay events with their O/U Berettas and Mirokus, using the 2-shot fast feature on the two stands they set up. Not from skill, but just familiarity with the gun.
Funniest bit is, when I drag the Italian 1887 out of the bag with it's colour-case hardened steel buttplate and action, everyone laughs and says, "put that outdated club away". They aren't laughing at the end of the session though.

By the looks of what's going to happen in NSW, maybe elsewhere in other Labor states, I only can add my own personal experiences with an option for those who might still want a repeating shotgun in a category you blokes can still enjoy. That's all.
I've never had an issue with both of mine, so I reckon it's all bias and user error. Has to be, because I'm only a user, not an expert.
Good luck with picking your alternatives.

[womble]

Don’t know what the new laws will be yet

But the lever actions were restricted to 5 to keep them cat b
More than 5 were moved to cat d because people bought longer mag tubes for them and the government cracked it.

I don’t know if they will have that sh*tfight again. I think it’s done.