Speer bullets - insane value and performance

[Wapiti]

Been having a bit of fun rejigging this Howa stainless sporter 223, It's had a scope swap from a donation from a mate who wanted an opinion on it.
The rifle has been set up for the install of a clip-on thermal for dogs at night in sit-and wait or follow the buggers when they are howling.
I am amazed at the rifle's mild recoil, it feels in my hands like a 223 but WAY more flexible.

These Speer bullets are very economical, and really accurate, in fact in a basic economy rifle that's had a bit of a beating and hasn't had a clean in awhile now after many outings, the results are unreal.
Wild dogs are not very big compared to the destruction to stock they can do in minutes, or need deep penetrating bullets on broadside shots. In fact I have heard and seen more lost, that is, run off to die slowly later, from the wrong projectiles in target-style cartridges.

Check these out for economical prices.
People are talking about costs rising, these are here now to take advantage of and you can get them posted.
This 70gn bullet below works out to $34/100.

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And these 75gn, just shy of $39/100.

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And these 130gn 308 dog busters. I know a member here who uses these to drop dogs in a factory load, well in handloads with 2206H powder, you can drop 3 of these through one hole, even in an autoloader with 16" barrel at 2800fps. Perfect speed for this bullet. Drive it faster and see what the results are.

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For people on a budget, these things are great value and help keep you shooting more.
I will post pics of the target results from yesterday evening next, to prove their potential accuracy from a bodgy reloader with a basic rifle like me.

[Bugman]

I can't speak of rifle projectiles....but have used in the past 148 HBWC in my 38, with excellent results. Damn hard to get though.

[9.3x64]

Yeah I agree. Speer bullets are great value and in my experience, are very accurate in the rifles I have used them.
Most of my life I have shot a 9.3x64 Brenneke with 270 grain Speer Hot Cors. That thing was so consistent with many groups one hole.
Yeah it’s not bonded, but it always worked on pigs and deer for me. And they are the cheapest 9.3 bullets available.
I hate paying for bonded bullets at exhaubatant prices, when a Hot Cor will do the job reliably at half the price.

[Wapiti]

The 243 is pretty popular with people on the land, and has been relegated to boring by the target cartridges now needed, or so everybody thinks from YouTube and glossy ads anyway.
I see more failures with the latest 6 and 6.5mm target cartridges and people who fall for numbers and incorrect projectile choices (experts don't do that, surely?!) that don't mean much, so those of you who want performance without the fancy ads and BS bragging are not in any way inferior with a 243. Don't listen to it, have a go and see for yourself. Your gear is fine as it is. Without the absolutely ridiculous cost of fad cartridge cases that people are terrified to lose. Or use.

So for those interested, here's the results of 2208 powder, cheap PPU cases and nothing-fancy WLR primers.
I got a few 100 packets of PPU cases from Cleavers for $29.90/100.
Picture has the info. Velocities in the 3350 range, not that quick but I find 2209 is a quicker-speed powder in the 243. Making these things go too fast for dogs is most likely not a problem.
These two groups were shot at twilight, 6.15pm and through this unreal scope you'd think it was lunchtime.

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The set-up. Cheap Meopta scope, 2-10x, see you can shoot tiny groups with a scope that actually has field of view and is bright as any on the market.
I suggest checking out The Barn, they bought all the distributors stock of the European-made Meoptas because Chinese scopes out here are not thought of kindly. Prices are incredibly good for Zeiss performance.
Home-made bench rest, made 25 years ago before those cheap spongy Lead Sleds were even invented. Made them for all my mates.
Home-made benchrest, from a throw-away box section frame that was for transporting cattle panels.
Top of warping pine sleepers, doesn't matter cost the benchrest has 3 feet.

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Everything homemade, target frames, targets from Weet-bix boxes inside-out, with cheap Ebay Shoot-N-See sticker spots to aim at.
All made from scrap, except the AR500 gongs, which I got off Ebay for half the gunshops price, posted to the big farm letterbox.

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So this post was about getting great performance with cheap yet awesome projectiles, super-cheap cases in a great forgotten cartridge that actually works, on home-made equipment. Hopefully spurs some on to have a go.
If I get time to try 2209 powder, I will put up the results, as I will if I get to drop a dog as well over Easter, which will be about relaxing.

[Wapiti]

"So this post was about getting great performance with cheap yet awesome projectiles, super-cheap cases in a great forgotten cartridge that actually works, on home-made equipment"
This is actually wrong, 243 isn't forgotten, it's just passed over nowadays because of the marketing for you to race out and buy the latest mousetrap or you will fail. Which not those who go out and use their gear usually do, but the pressure to do that is huge.

Edit: And I also f**ked up on the price of the PPU cases, they cost $29.90/50 or $49.90/100.
Still real great value, but I was misleading prior.

[mchughcb]

Ive reloaded for a mate on a budget with speer 270, 130gr hotcore. Tight clover leaf at 100m and he's bowled over a few sambar so he's very happy

[deye243]

Yes been using these for a very long time especially their 30 calibre 130 grain Hollow point don't ever think it's just a Varmint bullet one of the best Pig bullets ever made
Also used the 170 grain flat point for the 3030 on Sambar back in the 90s worked very well and their 55 grain soft points in 22 Cal value for money fantastic kangaroo culling projectile

[Fester]

I was loading the woodleigh 140gr PSSP for my 6.5x55 as a good sized Fallow buck pill, and they did perform better on the animals than previous cup and cors, but I loaded them up warmer to try and get them shooting better groups, they were no target pill, and I couldn't get them shooting clovers, or like a Sierra Game King.

When the Speers came back in stock, I grabbed some and just tried them at the warmed up Woodleig load.
They shot much the same. They are also much the same shape.
I didn't bother trying to fine tune the load, and waste money on components.

Only tested one on a yearling Fallow at about 100yd, talk about devastating, and I seen it all.
The animal left the ground and did a sideways 360.
The exit wound had a blood spray between 1 and 2m long.
It was a full-on heart shot, where I normally shoot more of a lung shot, and at longer ranges.

I really need to put one in a bigger animal, but I have full confidence in those Hotcors, and the value can't be beat.
I think my first pack cost about $40.

I decided not to do the rut hunting, as pressure makes the forest hunting hard enough without every man and his dog out there.
I was going to new areas and seen a few, including a good buck.
Was going to travel further, and go south for the better deer numbers but now it can cost near $100 for not much over 1/4 tank of fuel, so it puts me off a bit.
Not sure if I can just get used to it as several hundred bucks for a tank of diesel is not something to be sneezed at.

[bigrich]

i've used speers a few times over the years,as far as accuracy goes , some of my rifles have hated them , some absolutely loved them. for performance on game , speer 270gn in my 9.3x62 were the best on lighter game for that calibre and exceptionally accurate . by lighter game i mean pigs 100kg and under.
in 308/30-06 the speer 165gn boat tails in some rifles can be really accurate, the soft nature of these bullets gives very good damage on pigs. i'm curently playing around with a very mild 7x57 load for a comp, and have shot 1'2" groups out of a un bedded ruger m77 with the 160 boat tails . i bought a few boxes for $54 per hundred, which is good value . i had a 7-08 tikka that would shoot 130gn bt speers into one ragged hole, never did use these on game as i believed they were a bit too light for big pigs . probably be excellent on goat . i stick with speer or sst's for hunting these days . 150sst are my go to in 308 . they don't shoot bug holes, but they perform well on the varying game weights i hunt . goats , pigs, and hoppers at distance that think they are out of range of a 223

[wrenchman]

i load a lot of speer bullets they perform very well I am loading them for my 357 right now for my hand gun and lever gun

[deye243]

i've used speers a few times over the years,as far as accuracy goes , some of my rifles have hated them , some absolutely loved them. for performance on game , speer 270gn in my 9.3x62 were the best on lighter game for that calibre and exceptionally accurate . by lighter game i mean pigs 100kg and under.
in 308/30-06 the speer 165gn boat tails in some rifles can be really accurate, the soft nature of these bullets gives very good damage on pigs. i'm curently playing around with a very mild 7x57 load for a comp, and have shot 1'2" groups out of a un bedded ruger m77 with the 160 boat tails . i bought a few boxes for $54 per hundred, which is good value . i had a 7-08 tikka that would shoot 130gn bt speers into one ragged hole, never did use these on game as i believed they were a bit too light for big pigs . probably be excellent on goat . i stick with speer or sst's for hunting these days . 150sst are my go to in 308 . they don't shoot bug holes, but they perform well on the varying game weights i hunt . goats , pigs, and hoppers at distance that think they are out of range of a 223

If you have a 308 caliber rifle 308 30 06 don't discount that 130 grain pill it is an amazing reformer on pigs

[Damo300]

I have a tikka hunter fluted stainless in 243. Love that rifle. That Tikka (sloppy) smooth action. haha.

I will try these speers out at that price.
BCs are lower than my sierras, but I'm only shooting 300m Max. Would love to stretch it out one day.

I run the Sierra 85gr HPBT, 2208, wr primers, with great results, but they are getting up there in price now.
2 speers for 1 sierra pretty much.
Cheers for the heads up.

[bigrich]

i've used speers a few times over the years,as far as accuracy goes , some of my rifles have hated them , some absolutely loved them. for performance on game , speer 270gn in my 9.3x62 were the best on lighter game for that calibre and exceptionally accurate . by lighter game i mean pigs 100kg and under.
in 308/30-06 the speer 165gn boat tails in some rifles can be really accurate, the soft nature of these bullets gives very good damage on pigs. i'm curently playing around with a very mild 7x57 load for a comp, and have shot 1'2" groups out of a un bedded ruger m77 with the 160 boat tails . i bought a few boxes for $54 per hundred, which is good value . i had a 7-08 tikka that would shoot 130gn bt speers into one ragged hole, never did use these on game as i believed they were a bit too light for big pigs . probably be excellent on goat . i stick with speer or sst's for hunting these days . 150sst are my go to in 308 . they don't shoot bug holes, but they perform well on the varying game weights i hunt . goats , pigs, and hoppers at distance that think they are out of range of a 223

If you have a 308 caliber rifle 308 30 06 don't discount that 130 grain pill it is an amazing reformer on pigs

thanks for that recommendation mate with regards to the 165 speer bt's and hornady 150sst, they perform well with tail on shots with 80+ kg boars . a mate of mine a few years ago hit a sow about 60kg at about 25 meters with a 165 speer out of a 30-06, went in behind it's front shoulder and the expansion was such it just about took it's offside back leg clean off ! you'd think he hit it with a 35 whelen . i've come to use heavy for calibre soft projectiles as they penetrate AND give excellent expansion and energy transfer . dead right there as the yanks would say the 165bt speer does this very well . 225gn game kings in 35 cal also do this very well , but i can't afford to shoot them these days
one thing i've noticed about speers accuracy wise is they seem to work best at moderate velocity, at least in my experience . maybe because of their soft nature they don't need high pressure to swage to the rifling ? . regardless speer have been making traditional bullets that are affordable and work . go onto rebel gun works website and compare prices , especially to nosler . i dunno how nosler are going to stay profitable as a company . sierras have actually been more price competitive over the last few years than they used to be . on the upside we're spoilt for choice these days compared to the mid 80's when i started shooting

[bigrich]

"So this post was about getting great performance with cheap yet awesome projectiles, super-cheap cases in a great forgotten cartridge that actually works, on home-made equipment"
This is actually wrong, 243 isn't forgotten, it's just passed over nowadays because of the marketing for you to race out and buy the latest mousetrap or you will fail. Which not those who go out and use their gear usually do, but the pressure to do that is huge.

Edit: And I also f**ked up on the price of the PPU cases, they cost $29.90/50 or $49.90/100.
Still real great value, but I was misleading prior.

hey mate , i don't mean to digress from the speer topic , but if your looking for a fantastic 243 load , a mild load of 2208 with a 87 vmax has worked awesome in a few 243's i've come across over the years . around 33-34gn i think . the 87 vmax is intended as a varmint bullet , but the mild 2208 load brings performance back to hunting bullet results . expands at distances waaay out too . accuracy , bug holes . try some if you can trade or get a donation off a mate of a few . cheers

[Wapiti]

Thanks mate, I do use 35gn of 2208 with the 87 Vmax now as a everyday load.
Also 2208 with the 90gn Speer Cre Lokt which makes the 243 quite adequate on pigs.
And lately, a 90gn green-tipped Sierra tipped Gameking.

In this rifle, it just doesn't seem to gel with 2209, nothing I've tried, including 10, 20, 30 thou off the lands, all weights, it hates 2209. I even thought it was the scope, so I changed the 3.5x10 VX3i out for a Zerotech (WTF a waste of money) and now this Meopta cos the ZT is not worth as a paperweight.
This rifle is VERY powder fussy, and has been quite a pain.

[Wapiti]

So here's the results from yesterday evenings 2209 trial. As you can see, not everything comes out great.
Screaming speeds, low 3500fps for the 70gn and high 3500fps for 75gn Speers.
Loads were straight out of the ADI and Uncle Nick's book, both are identical. One of them has copied the other I suspect.
But screaming speeds are useless if the ammo sprays, and this powder did yet again.
I cannot find a load, or projectile, or seating depth, that works with 2209 in this particular rifle. I had hoped the 2208 results woukld carry over to 2209, but it is definitely not going to work. Maybe if I screw around with varying powder weights to find the "node", but if it's that fussy, I've no time for that wasting resources and time when 2208 works so well. Proof yet again, that if you do or don't reload, many firearms are fussy and you can stumble on a great load or brand, or they will make you work for it.
Results in the purple pen, on the same target so you can see the difference. Please ignore the previous 223 testing.

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A look at what the projectiles look like, seated with one calibre diameter into the case, to get good bullet grip for mag feed when hunting.
These projectiles are too short to try and get close to the rifling, even though this particular Howa has quite a short throat when setting up 87-90gn bullets.
Big open tip is the 70gn Varmint, small hollow point is the 75gn TNT.

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And the scope used. A Meopta Czech-made Optika 5, 2-10x42 with el-cheapo plastic ebay flip-up caps to keep the farm dust off.
For a mid $500 European scope (current price at The Barn while they last), this thing is amazingly bright and sharp as a tack, and on dark is as bright as daylight. And absolutely NO parallax detectable. Very impressed.

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Take away from all this, is that if the first powder (or ammo brand) you try is unacceptable, you have to try something else.
Also that these projectiles are amazingly accurate with the right load, and super economical compared to others twice the price, even 3x.
And that some rifles are very fussy.

[bigrich]

Thanks mate, I do use 35gn of 2208 with the 87 Vmax now as a everyday load.
Also 2208 with the 90gn Speer Cre Lokt which makes the 243 quite adequate on pigs.
And lately, a 90gn green-tipped Sierra tipped Gameking.

In this rifle, it just doesn't seem to gel with 2209, nothing I've tried, including 10, 20, 30 thou off the lands, all weights, it hates 2209. I even thought it was the scope, so I changed the 3.5x10 VX3i out for a Zerotech (WTF a waste of money) and now this Meopta cos the ZT is not worth as a paperweight.
This rifle is VERY powder fussy, and has been quite a pain.

i found in my limited experience with 243's, that 2208 generally was a more accurate , easier to get accuracy powder . but i did find 243 to be sensitive in my case to shoulder setback with fls dies . i know it works , and a lot of people swear by it , but 243win has a horrible shoulder
. i believe the first 243 wildcat on the 308 case was actually more like the 6mm creedmore in shoulder and neck design . i think this case has the potential to give easier , more consistent results . the winchester 243 case is made with the steep shoulder/small neck for ease of manufacture . JMHO

also the 6mm CM has better potential than 6.5mm CM due to the case being better sized for the 6mm bore ,

okay, i've just offended 243 shooters, and the 6.5 creed guys i'm looking at things from a technical point of view , case to bore size , shoulder design , ect. if your chosen cal works disregard my personal opinion .

sorry wapiti , i've hijacked your post and drifted off topic . how unlike me
cheers