Not all dies are the same.

[Wapiti]

I was reloading some 243 ammo the other week, and noticed that the projectiles were being seated very inconsistently - on an angle I could actually see.
WTF?
This is not acceptable if you want the best from your rifle-ammo combination.

This was with new cases, FLS before first loading to make sure they were straight. I resized them little by little until they grew in length and would not chamber, then slowly kept adjusting the die till the shoulder bumped back just enough to allow a small feel when closing the bolt.
Then I chamfered the case mouths, and the inside of the flash holes.
they were all dead straight, including the neck alignment with the body.

So what was going on?
I loaded both 70gn varminters, and 75gn TNT's. Both are flat base.
I knew there was something wrong with these dies, either in their design or just a fault, because I kind of know what I'm doing.
So I ordered some more dies to replace this brand. And to pull both apart to see if "Oils aint Oils, Sol."

both dies compared.jpg (694 KiB) Viewed 47 times

\Dies that I made the bent ammo with on the left ($90), new arrivals on the right ($180).

[Wapiti]

You can see the misalignment without measuring equipment. Piss poor.

noticeably bent.jpg (665.04 KiB) Viewed 46 times

[Wapiti]

So here's the construction/design of the offending seating die.
The guide that aligns the projectile straight couldn't possibly align the projectile at all - it floats on the top adjustment part of the die and is held in from falling out the bottom by a ring left in the top when the hole for the thread was drilled. It just flops around, left, right, tips sideways whatever.
It's not part of the top of the die, it's a steel rod and the knurled part you adjust is aluminium.
Here, you can see how much it can tip sideways.

L die 1.jpg (675.98 KiB) Viewed 44 times

From the top, sitting in the adjustment section, you can see how it can move about.

L die 2.jpg (695.74 KiB) Viewed 44 times

Here it is in bits.
Very simple, and I can see why this brand is so much cheaper that a fully machined steel die.

L die 3.jpg (695.01 KiB) Viewed 44 times

[Wapiti]

The new die, a different brand but just a standard die (NOT a benchrest or precision die) pulled apart.
You can see that the bullet seating stem is one piece hardened steel, that cannot tip off centre as it is a part of the top of the die.
It also doesn't have an O-ring to stop it going out of adjustment that can cause more wobble between the alloy threads and the steel die body like the other cheaper die, this one has threads with NO play and a lock ring to stop any sideways movement or loosening.
The cartridge case is also a nice slip-in fit in the die with very little sideways movement to allow any misalignment from not being centred in the shellholder, either. Unlike the other brand.
It cannot seat off-centre.

R die1.jpg (688.44 KiB) Viewed 44 times

R die2.jpg (688.41 KiB) Viewed 44 times

[Wapiti]

The worst run-out was from seating flat-base bullets.
By the design of the cheaper die, the huge loose tolerances allow the projectile to tip sideways when being pushed in, even with a good chamfer.
Boat-tail bullets centred quite well, as they have that "cone" to start them in straighter.

This was the run-out right at the neck. Just back from the tip, some of these loaded rounds had over 20 thou runout.
You just will not get the best from your work using a die like the one that caused the issues.
I know some people will say, "My XXXX dies are great". Yep.

Lee die runout.jpg (682.71 KiB) Viewed 42 times

A boat-tail bullet starts reasonably straight in the cheaper dies, because it has more chance of centering itself as it starts to seat.

90gn bullets.jpg (684.4 KiB) Viewed 42 times

To me, someone who's been involved in the manufacturing sector, can see why the second set of dies costs more. They are a more complex design with more machining and manufacturing steps, with more expensive materials used. And the lock design is also superior.
Again, you get what you pay for, and if the results you get with these more economical dies is all you need, that's great.

[GQshayne]

I do not have many dies, and have had a mix of mainly RCBS and Lyman. I bought some Lee dies a while back and they are certainly cheaper and do look a bit that way. Last lot I bought were Hornady, and they are very nicely made.

Now you will find out if your accuracy returns.

[bladeracer]

So here's the construction/design of the offending seating die.
The guide that aligns the projectile straight couldn't possibly align the projectile at all - it floats on the top adjustment part of the die and is held in from falling out the bottom by a ring left in the top when the hole for the thread was drilled. It just flops around, left, right, tips sideways whatever.
It's not part of the top of the die, it's a steel rod and the knurled part you adjust is aluminium.
Here, you can see how much it can tip sideways.

It can't move anywhere near that much while it's in the die though?

[straightshooter]

You can see the misalignment without measuring equipment. Piss poor.

noticeably bent.jpg

It could be a reflection or some other optical artifact but the case mouth in the picture has the appearance of having been crimped with a projectile that doesn't have a cannelure. Further the crimp doesn't appear to be perpendicular to longitudinal axis of the case.