.303 shooting

[in2anity]

The figure11 is rarely scored on accuracy - more a service target, based on hits and maybe inners and outers. But usually rapid or snaps. So as long as you can get em all on the fig11 from the sitting postion at 200m (with a sling if so desired) - you're doing pretty well.

[bladeracer]

The figure11 is rarely scored on accuracy - more a service target, based on hits and maybe inners and outers. But usually rapid or snaps. So as long as you can get em all on the fig11 from the sitting position at 200m (with a sling if so desired) - you're doing pretty well.

I don't know how they score it, but it's definitely not a precision target
I don't think Aussies trained with the sling - did they?

They did say that the Fig11 is also what we'll be shooting at 500yd, which is going to be a challenge. But trying to make sense of the stuff on the website is not easy so I'm expecting to be surprised. Rapid is going to be an issue as I too often have to wait for my eye to clear and give me a picture, even with the EyePal. I was hoping to shoot some groups at 50m, 100m, 150m and 200m today to get a better idea of the BC of the bullet. I think .450 is on the high side but the 500yd drop should tell me for sure.

[in2anity]

Must say, the 11 at 500yds is rather small, partricularly with the No1 sights. Not sure if could get them all on in a rapid. Maybe with an accurized No4 or p14. Is this with LERA? BTW Blade did you see the flyer for the ANZAC championship shoot? I heard some of the LERA boys may be interested in it.

[bladeracer]

Must say, the 11 at 500yds is rather small, particularly with the No1 sights. Not sure if could get them all on in a rapid. Maybe with an accurized No4 or p14. Is this with LERA? BTW Blade did you see the flyer for the ANZAC championship shoot? I heard some of the LERA boys may be interested in it.

The weather seems to be holding off so I might get out today to see just how small the target is at 500yd.
Yes, LERAA. I did see the ANZAC shoot, and I think I saw it posted to LERAA as well. I mentioned to Rose that it would be easier to fly to Sydney and do the ANZAC than driving to Rankins Springs

This is the info we're given for the upcoming Saturday shoot:
February 18-19th November 2023 (yes - it was November's shoot that was cancelled due to the rain)
Sat H.C Fluke Trophy 2 x 10 round matches
Sat pm “The LERAA 25” 25m Rimfire Global Postal Shoot for .22 trainers / 310 Cadet
Sun am “TBC” LERAA Tag
H.C. Fluke Trophy
(300 and 500yds *modified)
(Targets used will be original Tin Hat targets)
-10rnds with 2 optional sighting shots at 300yds
-10rnds with 2 optional sighting shots at 500yds* modified
(For Target rifles or ‘as issued” rifles in 303 British)
All other calibres/rifles (within range allowance) are welcome to participate but will not be eligible for the trophy.
It is 102 years since Sergt H.C Fluke, 24th Battalion, The London Regiment competed and won “The Queens”, the best shot of trained men. LERAA is proud and honoured to commemorate Sergt H.C.Fluke’s achievement with this shoot.
https://www.leraa.com/beat-the-heat-h-c-fluke-trophy2023

And if you look at the course of fire for the Fluke:
H.C. Fluke Memorial Trophy at 300 and 700yds (500yds *modified)
(Targets used will be original Tin Hat targets)
10rnds with 2 optional sighting shots at 300yds
10rnds with 2 optional sighting shots at 700yds. (500yds when using * modified)
(For Target rifles or ‘as issued” rifles in 303 British)
All other calibres/rifles (within range allowance) are welcome to participate but will not be eligible for the trophy.
https://www.leraa.com/h-c-fluke-trophy

As I said, the site is a mess. Reading it now I'm wondering if we're shooting at 300yd, and the 500yd is for "modified" rifles. The rules we were given last year was that we were shooting at the Figure 11 with a vertical 8" black stripe down the middle and scoring was just for hits in the black stripe. I'm sure I must've posted that previously in this thread but I'm not seeing it just now. I did find the scoring they use though, it's different depending on the specific course of fire.
https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16888#p291885

[in2anity]

As I said, the site is a mess. Reading it now I'm wondering if we're shooting at 300yd, and the 500yd is for "modified" rifles.

Hard to decipher init A modified at 500yd onto the fig11 would certainly be doable. BTW the champ shoot is going to have proper "modified" and "as-issued" seperation per the NRAA SSRs, unlike the MRCA weekly club level shoots. Provided it goes ahead, that is...

[bladeracer]

As I said, the site is a mess. Reading it now I'm wondering if we're shooting at 300yd, and the 500yd is for "modified" rifles.

Hard to decipher init A modified at 500yd onto the fig11 would certainly be doable. BTW the champ shoot is going to have proper "modified" and "as-issued" separation per the NRAA SSRs, unlike the MRCA weekly club level shoots. Provided it goes ahead, that is...

My "modified" SMLE has better sights in the PH5 but it doesn't actually seem to shoot any better than the "as issued" rifle. I'm just heading out again now so I'm inclined to take both with me today. The aperture sight is certainly more useful for me.

[bladeracer]

Too wet to get any shooting in so I spent some time measuring and calculating the SMLE sights.
Front sight is .680" above bore axis (sight is a "0").
Rear sight at 100yd position is 1.018" above bore axis.
Sight radius I read should be 19" (482.6mm) but it's 494mm at 100yd, to 482mm at the 2000yd position.
Sight positions are roughly:
100yd zero
200yd 4.6MoA
300yd 9.5MoA
400yd 12.2MoA
500yd 16.8MoA
600yd 23MoA
700yd 30MoA
800yd 37MoA
900yd 47MoA
1000yd 57MoA
1100yd 69MoA
1200yd 82MoA
1300yd 98MoA
1400yd 114MoA
1500yd 134MoA
1600yd 156MoA
1700yd 180MoA
1800yd 209MoA
1900yd 238MoA
2000yd 270MoA

To get something that follows the latter part of the curve, a bullet of .380BC launched at 2440fps is fairly close to that curve from 400yd to 1400yd, then it drops more quickly than the calculator suggests it should. I guess when it drops to sub-900fps the MkVII bullet loses some ballistic efficiency that the calculator doesn't allow for. Seems to fall to around .300BC around there out to 2000yd.

But I can't get any solution to also follow the short-range curve, which I find common with milsurps, so I guess these were zeroed for a low hold at close ranges? In the 300yd region it seems to have a step of several minutes.

For what I'm using these for I'll just shoot them at various ranges out to 500yds or so and record what sight positions I need for the load I'm using.

The increments are wide enough that I could shoot groups at 50m lifting the sight every 100yd and measure the height increase at the target in minutes, if I can find time. At 50m my open-sight groups are still small enough to make reasonably accurate trajectory measurements, at 100m the groups are large enough that I'd have to fire at least 10rd groups to get useful data.

[bladeracer]

Got out again yesterday just to get some trajectory data. Spent some time plinking a 150mm gong at 182m first with the RPR to get a feel for the wind. It was swirling around but wasn't heavy, I didn't think it would effect the 174's at that distance in any measurable way.

I made a front sight adjustment the other night and dropped the sight back to the 100yd position, so I fired five rounds to check that. I'd moved the PoI from the right side to the left side of the board. At the 100yd sight position the shots are still about 150mm-200mm high at 200yd, I've ordered a taller sight in case I decide I need to correct it.

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To my eyes at 200yd I'm seeing three horizontal stripes about a foot high across the board - black, orange, and black then the lower 200mm or so is hidden. I can see that the lower right corner is orange but the rest is in the grass. So I was aiming into the bottom black "stripe".
I also shot the bloody target frame again, I think that's six times now.

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I drifted the sight back about halfway and fired another group. These went a little lower (it's far from a precise aim point) but closer to the centre. I gave the sight another tap and left it at that for now.

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Then I switched to the modified SMLE to get an idea of its zero. You have to wind the PH5 sight up to the 800yd mark to remove the bolt - I really hope LERAA don't require bolt removal between strings, that would suck. I bore-sighted it roughly at a tree at 480m and the sights were hitting the hill around the 420m range. So I wound the sight down to the 400yd mark. I still expected the bullets to go very high at 200yd but they hit in the bottom black "stripe". Unfortunately, today I can't recall precisely where I aimed. After winding the PH5 down to 400yd I think I decided to aim at the same lower black "stripe" as they should've been on the board at least. Regardless, they're within a few inches so near enough to be going on with

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The LERAA shoot rules have a note at the beginning.

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It lists things that are not within "the spirit" of the shoot, so I asked them if the EyePal aperture would be acceptable. Unfortunately they consider it a shooting aid so no go. I'm still allowed to shoot, just won't qualify for anything so not really an issue. Though I'm sure I've heard of other military comp shooters that are using it, and other similar things. But I thought I'd better get the PH5 rifle zeroed in case I have to use that one instead

Had to get home to help Rose move the cows across the road to the middle block, but might be able to get out again later today.

[in2anity]

If it's gonna give you any persepective Blade, here's my No4 back in the "as-issued" configuration at 100m. We managed to get a digital target up on Sat! Progress!!

https://youtu.be/rFHH2LOfoSE

I don't really rate my No4 from a raw accuracy perspective. There are much better examples under the MRCA. Around 3.6 Roentgen. Not great, not terrible

[bladeracer]

If it's gonna give you any persepective Blade, here's my No4 back in the "as-issued" configuration at 100m. We managed to get a digital target up on Sat! Progress!!

https://youtu.be/rFHH2LOfoSE

I don't really rate my No4 from a raw accuracy perspective. There are much better examples under the MRCA. Around 3.6 Roentgen. Not great, not terrible

I'd say you're shooting very well there, though I completely lose scale with those electronic things. Does it group any better than that off bags?

I've fired enough .303 not to expect Swedish groups out of them

[in2anity]

If it's gonna give you any persepective Blade, here's my No4 back in the "as-issued" configuration at 100m. We managed to get a digital target up on Sat! Progress!!

https://youtu.be/rFHH2LOfoSE

I don't really rate my No4 from a raw accuracy perspective. There are much better examples under the MRCA. Around 3.6 Roentgen. Not great, not terrible

I'd say you're shooting very well there, though I completely lose scale with those electronic things. Does it group any better than that off bags?

I've fired enough .303 not to expect Swedish groups out of them

Lol yes they are no Swede. Those things are always accurate. But Swedes are also not as ergonomic, so it's tradeoffs. The scale on the screen is correct to the fig12 - so take away the low left cold bore shot, and the last three where i called them (as bad) - it's about a 4" group. That's about average I guess for a No4.

[bladeracer]

Lol yes they are no Swede. Those things are always accurate. But they are also not as ergonomic, so it's tradeoffs. The scale on the screen is correct to the fig12 - so take away the low left cold bore shot, and the last three where i called them (as bad) - it's about a 4" group. That's about average I guess for a No4.

I have worked out that the military targets are more for "area fire" than precision aiming
I really need to spend some time just shooting at some diamonds and circles I think, it'll be more useful in improving my shooting than simply spraying the huge black-orange blobs.

What diameter are the inner and outer circles on the electronic overlay?

[bladeracer]

I forgot, I also fired my PPU case life test rounds for the thirteenth time, and they are now failing. Some split necks and an obvious ring above the case head (.270" above the rim) that could indicate insipient separation. So I just put the angle grinder through the worst split one for a look.

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It's certainly worn but I don't think it's close to separation just yet. It's possible I might lose these to the neck splits before they actually come apart. But a batch of 500 pieces loaded a dozen times is 6000rds, not too bad. If they go fifteen that's 7500rds.

[bladeracer]

Went out yesterday to test out the camera on the RPR but decided to take the .303's with me.

I worked out that to see what the rifles are able to do, and to more precisely zero them I need a more precise aiming point than the big black-orange blob of the military targets. So I cut a square of A4 paper (210mm) and taped it as a diamond on a board. But the board I was using is full of holes already. I would normally take a before photo then go through all the holes on the computer later to see which were new, but my mate suggested just putting some newspaper on first - great idea - except that we couldn't see the holes from the firing position at 184m.

I wanted to zero the PH5 sight this time. The day before it was shooting about 100mm to the left but close to the correct elevation so I fired three rounds to confirm. We couldn't make out any holes with the 18power scope, so we walked up there and still couldn't see any holes at all...until my mate crouched down and saw light through one of them. The news print really hides them well

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I was impressed with a neat triangle 4.15" across about 100mm left of point of aim. I was holding 6 o'clock on the diamond as a centre hold hid too much of the white. I don't want a 6 o'clock zero though as I don't expect to be shooting at geometric shapes of fixed sizes.

I jumped online to try to find out what the PH5 sight adjustments are but got nowhere - it seems they can be quarter-, third-, or half-minute clicks? I needed two-minutes to the right so I tried eight clicks but didn't want them off the board so went back four clicks. If they're 1/4-clicks it'd be one-minute, if they're 1/2-clicks it'd be two-minutes, and if they're full clicks I should still be on the board. This time I tried a centre hold but could barely see any of the white above the front sight. These three gave me 5.17" slightly right of PoA and a little low due to the poor sight picture. I went back two clicks left and came up two clicks.

I fired a four-round group virtually on top of the first and 4.63" across. Very happy with that but still have no idea what the adjustments are so I'll have to measure those today if I get a chance. Four clicks right moved PoI about 150mm, but two clicks back moved it 150mm as well. I suspect they're half-minute clicks. But I'm close enough that a sighting shot or two should put me on target.

[in2anity]

Yeah that's not bad for a No1, and such a distance. You probably won't do a hell of a lot better in terms of bedding and load. Maybe do a stress test? Like 10 rounds in 40 seconds? (i.e. a rapid fire). Just to ensure that it doesn't behave strangely from heat.

[bladeracer]

Yeah that's not bad for a No1, and such a distance. You probably won't do a hell of a lot better in terms of bedding and load. Maybe do a stress test? Like 10 rounds in 40 seconds? (i.e. a rapid fire). Just to ensure that it doesn't behave strangely from heat.

I'm not interested in trying to improve it, I just want to improve myself to match it

The rapid is not a bad idea at all. I enjoy shooting this one so much more as I can actually see the sights
The sheet of AR450 I ordered is in so I have to collect that this arvo. Might be able to get out for another session afterwards.

[safeshot]

The .303 is in fine condition. Congratulations.

[bladeracer]

The .303 is in fine condition. Congratulations.

I'm very happy with both my SMLE's. The "as issued" 1943 Lithgow I have had apart, it is excellent throughout and shoots very well. I bought it from a local deer hunter here. The "modified" 1945 Lithgow has the PH5 sight and the muzzle cap is bored out to fully float the "H" barrel. I haven't had it apart to know if there's anything else that's not as issued though. I assume it spent many years on military competition ranges but know nothing about its history. My 1943 Longbranch No4Mk1* I bought online off an old fella in outback SA. I don't know what his background was but the rifle came with a spike and over 400 old 1970's 173gn and 174gn Super soft-point bullets.

[in2anity]

The "modified" 1945 Lithgow has the PH5 sight and the muzzle cap is bored out to fully float the "H" barrel. I haven't had it apart to know if there's anything else that's not as issued though. I assume it spent many years on military competition ranges but know nothing about its history.

No doubt. They are still extremely popular at Malabar. The extra weight really does help particularly with consistency.

[bladeracer]

The "modified" 1945 Lithgow has the PH5 sight and the muzzle cap is bored out to fully float the "H" barrel. I haven't had it apart to know if there's anything else that's not as issued though. I assume it spent many years on military competition ranges but know nothing about its history.

No doubt. They are still extremely popular at Malabar. The extra weight really does help particularly with consistency.

I wish I did know what it has been up since the war.

I see in your videos you seem to have to shoulder the rifle before closing the action? Is that a rule or a preference? My right arm has limited strength to push forward that far with the cock-on-close, I can do it but it would not be easy to do numerous times through a match. Not an issue for me as I like to catch each case anyway so I just drop it from the shoulder to cycle it.

[in2anity]

I see in your videos you seem to have to shoulder the rifle before closing the action? Is that a rule or a preference? My right arm has limited strength to push forward that far with the cock-on-close, I can do it but it would not be easy to do numerous times through a match. Not an issue for me as I like to catch each case anyway so I just drop it from the shoulder to cycle it.

Smply put, you aren't supposed to close the action until the muzzle is horizontal; that's the motivator behind my style. But TBH it's a habit that I have formed from shooting fullbore, where over there they don't want you to close your bolt until the rifle is pocketed. In addition, during a stage, we aren't supposed to close the action until the "Action" command is given - then the stage plays out.

What is a little grey is at 0:29 here:

https://youtu.be/6J8kk_96QoI?t=27

So some mauser shooters wil charge, then close the bolt fully, then shoulder. So long as the muzzle doesn't go up above the horizon.

Like here, he closes the bolt out of the shoulder after charging, but it's ok because the muzzle stays down:

https://youtu.be/6Dn4JVnmLA0

If you close after recharge, just keep the muzzle down. But you won't have to recharge if you're on a LE though? (no mad minute matches anymore)

EDIT: here's an example where i charge and close out of the shoulder, but the muzzle stays down, so it's not a problem:

https://youtu.be/GdAIPp2HFOU

[bladeracer]

Smply put, you aren't supposed to close the action until the muzzle is horizontal; that's the motivator behind my style. But TBH it's a habit that I have formed from shooting fullbore, where over there they don't want you to close your bolt until the rifle is pocketed. In addition, during a stage, we aren't supposed to close the action until the "Action" command is given - then the stage plays out.

What is a little grey is at 0:29 here:

https://youtu.be/6J8kk_96QoI?t=27

So some mauser shooters will close the bolt fully in one motion, then shoulder. So long as the muzzle doesn't go up above the horizon.

Like here, he closes the bolt out of the shoulder after charging, but it's ok because the muzzle stays down:

https://youtu.be/6Dn4JVnmLA0

If you close after recharge, just keep the muzzle down. But you won't have to recharge if you're on a LE though? (no mad minute matches anymore)

EDIT: here's an example where i charge and close out of the shoulder, but the muzzle stays down, so it's not a problem:

https://youtu.be/GdAIPp2HFOU

Thanks for those. I thought different courses of fire specify whether a round is chambered or bolt open etc. The LERRA rapid thing I think is bolt open, ten rounds loaded, rifle at your feet - go prone and hit the target as many times as possible in 45 seconds. I think it's very unlikely anybody has time to use a charger but it might be possible to toss in a loose round and get it away in time.

Off to see if I can drag a 62kg sheet of very hot steel up a grassy hill

[in2anity]

Thanks for those. I thought different courses of fire specify whether a round is chambered or bolt open etc. The LERRA rapid thing I think is bolt open, ten rounds loaded, rifle at your feet - go prone and hit the target as many times as possible in 45 seconds. I think it's very unlikely anybody has time to use a charger but it might be possible to toss in a loose round and get it away in time.

Yeah ok so the same as the old MRCA mad minute event. The best can get close to x15 downrange in 45secs. But you are better going slower and getting 10/10 on, rather than 7/15 due to "madness"

[Larry]

It is a NRAA rule in the full bore section that the bolt shall not be closed until the rifle is on target.

[bladeracer]

Had a blast today
Bumped into Gadge on the way out to my mate's place so I stopped to see how he's getting on, he hasn't been on here much the last few years but he's doing well. I'll catch up with him properly sometime soon when I have more time. Got to my mate's just after 1500 but after being very hot at home it was fairly mild up in the hills. First thing to do was modify the Figure 11 target frame (so I can't possibly shoot it again), and to raise the target up above the grass.

Then I drove the Landcruiser up as close as I could get to the target site but my mate decided the fence was very rusty anyway so he cut it and I drove right to the spot rather than try to move the 62kg 1200mm BZ450 square plate manually. We stood the plate up against an old firewood saw stool on top of the pallet they gave me with it, but the bottom 200mm was still hidden in the grass from the firing point. I also stood a section of 310UB next to the plate to see what the .303 does to the 6.1mm web at 500yd. This was also half hidden in the grass, a very, very small target at that distance - about 450mm tall by 300mm wide.

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On the way back we set up the Figure 11 at about 300m, forgetting that I wanted it at 300yd - and checking it from the firing point it was actually 310m, 40yd over, oh well.

I started by confirming zero on the 125mm gong at 184m...actually it would've been around 190m today as I moved the ute further back to get 500yd on the steel plate - forgot about that. Wind was about six minutes there (I thought it was three-minutes as I had the scope wound down to 9-power as I wanted to try the Tactacam again but I put a new card in which it didn't like). Then I moved out to the 310m Figure 11 and held the reticle right along the left edge of the target. I forgot this was at 310m, not 300m - they all dropped into the bottom left corner of the target. We couldn't see .22-cal holes at 310m even with the 75-power spotting scope but we heard them hit the board so I figured we were in the right ballpark. Measuring them now they dropped about 500mm low and 450mm right of PoA, around 5MoA. I figured we were close enough to try for 500yd.

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461m was a calculated 80 minutes up from 184m. I wound the zoom down to 4.5-power to quadruple the reticle subtensions, giving me 62MoA on top of the duplex post. I then dialled up another 20MoA on the turret to give me an 82MoA hold on the top of the duplex post. The wind had picked up so I held about 9MoA left wind on the large plate (about two-feet out from the left edge). My first shot smacked the U-Beam in the centre. We couldn't see splashes on the grey plate but we could see them on the mild steel beam so immediately saw how much wind there was - about 2m. A long way from where it should be but a very lucky hit that we could see - and I forgot to film the first shot. Without this hit I would've been shooting all around the plate trying to find it - we didn't see any ground feedback from any of my shots today but the closest shots I made were at 190m with the .22 and 310m with the SMLE. I fired about 30rds at the plate I think, with quite a few misses, but enough hits to go up for a look.

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The plate has a lot of marks on it but we counted nine definite impacts on the plate and four on the beam. My wind holds were all around the plate so I can't conclude what sort of group might've been possible if I could've dropped more than a couple of consecutive hits on the plate, but the vertical spread was probably no more than a metre. Got some useful data so pretty happy with that.

Then I swapped to the SMLE. I have the PH5 pretty well zeroed at 200yds I think now, so I've adjusted the scale plate to suit. My measurements of the sight graduations on the original SMLE sight tell me that to move from 200yd to 300yd is about 5MoA drop (with what I assume is MkVII ammo). So I counted the clicks. Six clicks brings the scale to the 300yd mark, so are these one-minute or half-minute clicks. I needed seven clicks to zero from 200yd to 300yd with the Bertram, so most likely these are half-minute clicks. 3.5MoA drop from 200yd to 300yd would work for a bullet around .450-.500BC allowing for the lack of precision of groups over iron sights at these distances. Then from 200yd to 500yd we went up 25 clicks or 12.5MoA, which also fits a bullet of about .450-.500BC. So I think I've worked out a few things, but it still doesn't follow the trajectory of the original sight gradient under 300yd or so - they must've used a low hold at close ranges - though not with the PH5 competition sight.

I fired five rounds with a central hold as I had raised the target and could now see its full height, but I couldn't make out any orange in it, it was just a tall thin dark patch a bit narrower than the front sight. Unfortunately the target was actually at 310m so would've needed another click with MkVII. My 2300fps Bertram's hit about 200mm to 300mm low. So my 300yd zero will be the 300yd mark plus one or two clicks. I might get better groups if I bullseye the target so my 300yd zero would be more like eight clicks past the 300yd mark - more practice will answer that (half the height of the 45" target is 7.5MoA at 300yd).

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My measurements said that the 500yd mark should be about 12MoA up from a 200yd zero - the PH5 went 22 clicks to the 500yd mark so there is a big jump in there (as I discovered when I measured the sight). But I took a sight picture with the left side of the front sight lined up with the left edge of the plate to allow for any wind, and held halfway up the plate. I can't see the bottom 200mm due to grass so my hold was probably 500mm down from the top. I fired five and all hit, but we couldn't see any splashes on the grey steel, so we went for a look.

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One shot went a little high, the other four were in a neat line across the bottom and 350mm wide. My elevation hold must've been amazing...but more likely a fluke About 500mm low, or three minutes, so I brought it up to 25 minutes from 200yds. Again I think I might see better groups if I bullseye the 1200mm-square target that LERAA uses at 500yd so I might come up another four clicks and try it. Pretty happy with just ten rounds down range as I have some data to play with before further testing.

I still wanted to test the .303 against mild steel plate so I had a try at hitting the 6.1mm web of the beam. The target I could see was a tiny black dot about 400mm tall and 300mm wide. It looked like a spec of crud sitting on the front sight. But I took a dead centre hold along the line of grass at the bottom, and the bullet hit precisely where I aimed it. I hadn't hit record on my phone though so I thought I'd try again just to get video of it Two more shots missed, though it looks like they buried themselves in the dirt two meters behind the target - I'll have to take the metal detector next time to see if we can recover them (they'd be around 1600fps here so it'd be interesting to see if they're damaged at all. I thought I'd try one more before calling it quits...and it hit right beside the first one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5Rrp0Hpeh8
The bullets left no visible or tactile damage to the mild steel at all, very nice to know. Higher-BC bullets will be hitting it with more velocity, and the smaller calibers will have even more speed and smaller surface area so I'll have to try those as well. But 6mm mild steel is a third of the price of this 5mm BZ450 and Bizalloy seems unnecessary past 500m or so. I'll move the beam closer until I see the first signs of damage, then turn it sideways to shoot the 10.2mm flange to see if they stand up any better.

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A rough idea of the sight picture I used at 500yd on both targets - the black represents the front sight.

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From the shooting position, if I looked across the hill the four-foot-square plate was not at all obvious in the grass, if I didn't know it was there I doubt I'd have seen it. The steel beam beside it was equally impossible to see if I didn't know it was there. All in all a very fun afternoon.

The plan is to move the plate and the beam to another position where I can hit them with some other rifles out to 1000m, then cut it up into smaller close-range gongs. I'll use mild steel for long-range gongs. This LERAA shoot is next weekend so I think I'll just continue the .303 practice for now.

[bladeracer]

More shooting Saturday and Sunday at 300yd and 500yd getting sight data with the PH5 sight. Three rounds on Sunday really hurt my shoulder though I don't know why. Must've just been a poor position I guess.

Then today my mate came to my place for some practice and to try out a new SMLE he bought on Saturday. That one has some significant issues unfortunately so he packed it up after four rounds
I shot a 50m group with the PH5 rifle, then put him on it to see if he shoots it to the same point of aim as I do. My first shot went way high, reminding me that the sight was still set for a low hold at 300yd

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His first shot went a little high and his group is a little right of mine but in the right ballpark to be on the paper at 500yd I think, so he can use my rifle to shoot the Modified class as well. Elevation is what matters, windage is a variable every time you go shooting so isn't relevant when swapping shooters. We couldn't recall whether he's fired it at all before so he'll need some practice, but he does like the aperture sight. His rifle has an aperture sight mounting plate but he doesn't have the sight for it. We need to try to determine which sight he needs to find. The plate is marked Central though.

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Then I shot a group with my SMLE then had him have a go, just to compare both our rifles 50m zero (his rifle on the 200yd position hits about 140mm high at 50m, mine on the 100yd position hits about 100mm high).

Both were shot with the diamond planted on top of the front sight, set at 100yd. I used the EyePal as I couldn't use the sites at all otherwise, he also thought he'd try the EyePal. Mine is the lower group. He fired a pretty nice four-shot group, then dropped one very low. I gave him another round as we wanted to see a five-shot group but he threw it very high. We couldn't work out any particular cause except for the difficulty of trying to work with the aperture on the goggles and align it with both sights then the target, it takes some getting used to. Shooting the Modified rifle all last week was lovely not having to wear bloody goggles

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Pretty happy that we were shooting okay and knew where our rifles were shooting so we moved down to the creek where we can shoot 200yd. We just wanted to confirm point of impact at this distance as we can calculate adjustments from that.
I fired three rounds with the Figure 11 sitting on top of my front sight. First round went left and 80mm above the bottom, third round went right and 260mm up. My second round I felt I had pulled a few inches high and we couldn't see it with the 75-power spotting scope. I went up the hill for a look and it was dead centre of the target, I wish I could pull them all like that

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I had confirmed last week that the 100yd sight position was about 150mm-200mm high at 200yd so it hadn't changed. So I need about 8MoA on top of the 100yd position to drop the bullets into the centre, which will be around the 300yd sight position - I'll fine tune that at the club.

Also standing the target on top of the front sight, G's rifle put a shot either side of the number "3", about 350mm from the bottom, and a third about 150mm up from the bottom.

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I figured he needed about 5MoA so he moved the sight to the 300yd position. Another three rounds put one three-inches above dead centre, and one three-inches below, the third about two inches lower next to the "4".

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He moved the sight up to 350yd but the target blew over before we could put any more rounds on it. We had some good data so we called it a day. Maybe we'll get a few rounds practice at the range before the comp.

G is going straight up the middle, I want to go up around the east to check out the bush above Buchan.

[Wm.Traynor]

Bladeracer,
I don't know if anyone has said this before but I would like to make a suggestion about your electrician's-tape, targets. That is, I think that I would see them better if they were rotated 90 degrees, so that I was aiming at the side of a square instead of the tip of a diamond.
This might not apply to you, however

[in2anity]

Bladeracer,
I don't know if anyone has said this before but I would like to make a suggestion about your electrician's-tape, targets. That is, I think that I would see them better if they were rotated 90 degrees, so that I was aiming at the side of a square instead of the tip of a diamond.
This might not apply to you, however

I concur. Marrying flat edges (with a 6oclock hold) provides a better sight picture than any point. Same goes with the front sight - the best service shooters steer clear of the barleycorn front sight, even though a newbie may imagine you could be "more precise" with such a point. Truth is you get elevation from them.

Nope, a crisp, blackened, square post, with the corners as reference points for kentuckying, is optimal. Like a No4, P14/M17, or 03A3; with their nice long sight radius.

[in2anity]

Three rounds on Sunday really hurt my shoulder though I don't know why. Must've just been a poor position I guess.

You've been critical of service rifle clubs permitting "non-standard" equipement in the past. But it's a matter of making things comfortable for the (fee paying) members, and ultimately to retain their membership. Overwhelmingly, the so called "silly" jackets are popular to simply reduce the suffering and bruising. Might I suggest something along these lines https://www.nswra.org.au/products/aussie-sweater?It's just an undergarment, if you want to appease other rulebooks...

[bladeracer]

Bladeracer,
I don't know if anyone has said this before but I would like to make a suggestion about your electrician's-tape, targets. That is, I think that I would see them better if they were rotated 90 degrees, so that I was aiming at the side of a square instead of the tip of a diamond.
This might not apply to you, however

I agree with you, and I think I will start doing that with the open sights when using other than centre holds. With a centre hold I find a diamond easier to find the fattest part of the diamond to give me the elevation centre which I can lay across the rear sight, essentially the same way a circle does but more easily seen. The four-foot square steel has already showed it's value in being able to make quarter-plate wind holds because it does have clearly-defined side edges, and I can get a much finer sight picture by placing the bottom edge of the target on top of the rear sight. It's only useful when you know the precise size of the target though and have the sights set up for a six-o'clock hold. That's what I've been working on across the weekend, sight settings to give us six-o'clock holds on four-foot tall targets at 200yd, 300yd and 500yd. Basically, with the load I'm using in our SMLE's we wind the sight up to the correct yardage, then go another 100yd plus four to six clicks. I haven't tried it at 400yd yet but I'm expecting the sight position will be around the 525yd position for centre hits on a four-foot target.

With scopes I aim at a point of the diamond, I don't align anything.

Something I keep forgetting to try is different size aiming points to see if I can see smaller targets when using the EyePal.

We made quite a lot of lovely noise yesterday and I had a text on the way home from a neighbour saying he was looking forward to hearing how we got on with our practicing - got to love neighbours that appreciate shooting. I'll go up this arvo and have a chat with him